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The Canadian politics thread (pg. 5)
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| MarkT |
^^^ interesting point.
I do still think it's a form of strong-arm tactic though. They still have to govern during all of this and are still following their own agenda while not erally caring to work with the opposition parties.
If anything, they capatilize on the opposition never being willing to agree, either due to policy differences (e.g. Afghanistan) or because when they do all agree, the Liberals bail due to the fear of bringing down the gov't.
I don't doubt the CPC would love an election now rather than wait...but they also know the Liberals will (for the time being) out from allowing the gov't to fall, thereby allowing the CPC to govern as they please. That the Liberals failed to support their own private members bill right away, instead alluding to a post-Easter battle in the House, is proof that they STILL have no concensus on strategy.
I really do think Dion is not the man to lead the party...but can they really change leaders at this point? Does it set the party back further and implicitly give the CPC a mandate for the forseeable future?
*sigh*
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
^^^ interesting point.
I don't doubt the CPC would love an election now rather than wait...but they also know the Liberals will (for the time being) out from allowing the gov't to fall, thereby allowing the CPC to govern as they please. That the Liberals failed to support their own private members bill right away, instead alluding to a post-Easter battle in the House, is proof that they STILL have no concensus on strategy.
I really do think Dion is not the man to lead the party...but can they really change leaders at this point? Does it set the party back further and implicitly give the CPC a mandate for the forseeable future?
*sigh*
:( |
The Liberals are not ing out, it's strategy. For the very same reasons that the CPC wants an election right now the Liberals do not; moreover, if they defeat a confidence motion that gives the CPC control over what the key issue of the election will be... for instance, had the Liberals voted against the budget then it would have become the key issue... with tax cuts and debt reduction this isn't something you can win an election against. Nor would they want to fight an election based on opposing the CPCs crime bills. The one item that they may have gone to the polls on and done quite well on is the one that Harper (wisely) decided to make ammendments to... the Afganistan motion, because had Harper gone to election with staying in Afganistan as the key issue the CPC would have probably lost. The first thing you learn in Political Science is CONTROL THE ISSUE... the Liberals are waiting for an issue they can win on and/or for the CPC to get tired of waiting and drop the writ unilaterally (which is an issue in itself).
I agree, Dion is not the right person to be the leader... he lacks charizma. He may be a brilliant policy-wog but people vote for characters with policies, not policies alone. |
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| MarkT |
^^^ my bad...poor choice of words. I meant that the Liberals would back down (for their own benefit) but that would be spun as 'ing out' from the CPC standpoint.
you're quite right about the issue on which they bring the CPC down being important. personally, I feel budget issues are important enough, but with vote-grabbing things like GST cuts in their overall policy, the general public won't be quick to toss them on fiscal matters. The flyer the CPC candidate (who will get torched by Bob Rae in the by-election) dropped off at my door was hillarious propoganda...Liberals talking about increasing the GST, no income tax cuts, blah blah. The budget would have been an awful choice for forcing an election.
Afghanistan would have been the ideal...but I think that it was wise on both sides to compromise. Everyone (NDP idealists included) knows you can't just yank the troops out and leave a void. Leaving altogether would definitely hurt U.S. relations as well.
The CPC knows the public won't stand for an indefinite, poorly defined (to the public) role in a mission they don't really understand in the first place and which is costing a fortune (and still exceeding budget). The Liberals could have waged a very dirty propaganda filled election campaign from that angle alone if they chose to align with the position of the other parties...but they too realize that if they DID take office, they wouldn't be able to yank the troops or deal with the fallout with the U.S. and global community. Iraq is a ing mess from a moral standpoint...Afghanistan, not so much.
I almost wish Duceppe was a Liberal... |
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| Yohan |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
I almost wish Duceppe was a Liberal... |
lol. wow.
are you kidding me? |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
lol. wow.
are you kidding me? |
Come on Yohan, you have to admit; he's very bright, articulate, and charizmatic. If he were alligned with any other party he would be incredibly popular throught the country. |
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| MarkT |
I said almost, lol. he's bright guy, at least, and was very competent in the debates prior to the last election.
I just don't see a Liberal saviour from within the party right now. I was was pulling for Ignatieff to win the nomination. I don't dislike Dion, but don't think he's leadership material. |
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| Yohan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Come on Yohan, you have to admit; he's very bright, articulate, and charizmatic. If he were alligned with any other party he would be incredibly popular throught the country. |
I dunno about charismatic, but I'll say that he's bright and articulate.
Though it's not that hard when your agenda is to screw rest of Canada only for Quebec. Easier to formulate policy :p
Makes me wonder how much of Quebecois public opinion he really does represent though (apparently not enough) |
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| Yohan |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
I just don't see a Liberal saviour from within the party right now. I was was pulling for Ignatieff to win the nomination. I don't dislike Dion, but don't think he's leadership material. |
Bob Rae? :p
Makes me wonder how much further left the Liberal party is heading towards |
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| MarkT |
oh, the Bloc agenda is a ing joke on the national stage...that's why it's so unfortunate that he's their leader. It's impossible to *really* like him, knowing the "Quebec first, Canada second" mentality.
I'd take him over any other party leader right now in a heartbeat (as a Liberal party member...not Bloc, of course) |
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| Yohan |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
I'd take him over any other party leader right now in a heartbeat (as a Liberal party member...not Bloc, of course) |
No love for Elizabeth May? :p
(alright. I'll stop twitting you) ;) |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
I said almost, lol. he's bright guy, at least, and was very competent in the debates prior to the last election.
I just don't see a Liberal saviour from within the party right now. I was was pulling for Ignatieff to win the nomination. I don't dislike Dion, but don't think he's leadership material. |
Pfft, Dion is a Kim Campbell... no one expects him to win an election, he got the leadership because they wanted to spare Ignatieff the inevitable loss... just as the PCs did for Charet. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
Bob Rae? :p
Makes me wonder how much further left the Liberal party is heading towards |
lol. he's going to be my MP too (I live in Toronto-Centre).
Bill Graham was very good and his retirement is truly a political loss for the riding, the party and the country. I think he handled the interim leadership of the party quite well, given the circumstances.
Only someone like Rae could parachute in and as strongly hold the riding, I think. It seems like a waste though. ANY Liberal could hold this riding...Rae could have been put to better use in a more closely battled area.
Bob Rae, PM? I doubt it, lol. How badly would he be smeared in an election campaign? |
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