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The Canadian politics thread (pg. 6)
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| Yohan |
Anyone really amused by this fed Cons vs Ont Libs right now?
Just watching Mike Duffy right now and I think it's outright hilarious.
Astonishing figure. Ontario budget was around 60 bil 5 yrs ago. Now 90 bil... |
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| Yohan |
I am also amused by this rift between Libs in Quebec
Dion's days are numbered? |
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| Yohan |
And then, there are the Cons with this sort of tactic which leaves me speechless (haha. terrible pun)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...y/National/home
| quote: |
Conservative headquarters scripting calls to radio shows
ALEXANDER PANETTA
The Canadian Press
March 25, 2008 at 6:15 PM EDT
OTTAWA — Next time you're listening to your favourite radio phone-in show, those pro-Conservative opinions you hear from callers might not be as spontaneous as they sound.
Some of those apparently ad-libbed musings are actually being choreographed at the Conservative Party of Canada's national headquarters.
The governing party has produced talking points for grassroots supporters on a variety of issues, feeding them lines on everything from climate change to child care.
For Conservative supporters, the process is as simple as 1-2-3.
Surf the party website. Type in your postal code. Click on a topic you'd like to discuss on the radio.
And the website spits out the times, phone numbers, and names of local talk shows to call — along with a handy list of good things to say about the Conservatives and bad things to say about their opponents. The website includes similar advice for letter-writers to newspapers.
The system has been in place for months but an Ottawa-area talk show host first raised it with listeners Tuesday after learning about it.
“We want people to phone in and express their own opinions. We don't want people phoning in and reading from a script,” said Mark Sutcliffe, who hosts CFRA's The Chatroom.
“(But) I don't think we get a ton of calls like that.”
The Conservatives describe the practice as state-of-the-art politicking. A party spokesman said the practice offers enhanced transparency, and is used elsewhere in the world.
“This is part of campaigning in the Internet age. Party activists are increasingly becoming virtual volunteers,” Conservative spokesman Ryan Sparrow said.
“And just as rank-and-file investors want the same data as market professionals, grassroots activists want the same info and (talking points) as party strategists and spinners.”
The Conservative talking points on taxation, for instance, list details on the GST cut, the child tax credit, and tax cuts to seniors.
The same talking points contrast Conservative achievements with the Liberal sponsorship scandal, gun-registry boondoggle, and failure to cut the GST. They also suggest the Bloc Quebecois could never achieve real tax relief because it's perpetually in opposition and describe the NDP as tax-hikers.
All parties produce speaking notes for elected MPs, staff members, and lobbyists or activists who serve on their behalf as unsalaried, unofficial spokespeople.
Liberal and NDP websites also include phone numbers for radio shows or tips for getting on the air.
But the Tories appear to take it one step further: their site offers speaking points for members of the general public to pass off as their own musings to fellow radio listeners.
The headline on the Tory web page with the call-in instructions says: “Tired of hearing the vested interests of the Liberals and the special interests of the NDP get their messages out via the media? Call in to a show yourself and fight back with the facts!”
A Liberal party spokesman says it's a new extreme for a government that has already placed an unprecedented gag order on its elected members, political staff, and civil servants.
In one famous incident during the last election campaign a Conservative MP was stuffed into a restaurant kitchen by a Stephen Harper staffer when approached by the media.
That strict discipline has survived their two years in government: requests to speak publicly are routinely vetted by the Prime Minister's Office, scores of MPs will recite identical sound bites on any given topic, and the government often allows only one person to make public utterances on a given issue.
“This undermines our democracy,” said Liberal party spokesman Daniel Lauzon.
“It's not up for someone in Ottawa to tell someone in Blind River what they should think. . . All we tell our supporters is, 'Speak your mind. Get out there and talk.'
“Never do we dictate messaging.”
The Conservatives do pay more attention to talk radio than some of their rivals, seeing it as a more useful barometer of public opinion than other media.
Upon taking office, a Harper strategist famously told prime ministerial staff he didn't need to see daily clippings from the major national newspaper — he wanted talk-show transcripts.
But the attention to detail in messaging has occasionally raised eyebrows.
On a recent CPAC television call-in panel, host Dale Goldhawk interrupted at one point when a caller appeared to be stumbling over a list of written notes.
“Are you reading from something?” the frustrated host interjected.
The radio-host who reported the practice to his listeners Tuesday noted that even if callers phone in with a script, they still need to be able to engage in live conversation.
As Mr. Sutcliffe says, they're not speaking to an answering machine but a radio host whose job it is to ask probing questions.
Still, the system for distributing government talking points through the general public does strike him as somewhat strange — and certainly more elaborate than what other parties do.
“What I think is unusual about this Conservative website is just how systematic it is,” he said.
“The process for the Conservative one is a little more automated: punch out your topic and your postal code, and we'll spit out a script for you to follow.”
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
Anyone really amused by this fed Cons vs Ont Libs right now?
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I'd love to see what would happen if this same tactic were used in Alberta or Quebec. This is so inappropriate of the feds. What amazes me is that they're keeping at it despite the majority of Ontarians being a) upset about it and b) disagreeing with them. What I find even more funny is that Jimmy was completely inept as the finance minister for Ontario and it looks like he'll be the first federal finance minister to put us into a deficit since Martin got us out.... I hardly believe he should be giving anyone advice on how to run an economy, as he clearly doesn't know how. |
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| Jayx1 |
Oh my god! Organized politics! Shocking! |
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I'd love to see what would happen if this same tactic were used in Alberta or Quebec. This is so inappropriate of the feds. What amazes me is that they're keeping at it despite the majority of Ontarians being a) upset about it and b) disagreeing with them. What I find even more funny is that Jimmy was completely inept as the finance minister for Ontario and it looks like he'll be the first federal finance minister to put us into a deficit since Martin got us out.... I hardly believe he should be giving anyone advice on how to run an economy, as he clearly doesn't know how. |
It seems as if the Fed is actually trying to sabotage Ontario. What the motive is, I have no idea. Why hamstring such an important economic center? |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
It seems as if the Fed is actually trying to sabotage Ontario. What the motive is, I have no idea. Why hamstring such an important economic center? |
Actually Flaherty is doing the job that Mcguinty and his liberal buddies are failing to do. He's pressuring Ontario to follow his lead in order to help stave off the damage to the economy that is happening in Ontario. Not all of it is Mcguinty's fault. The high dollar (relative to the US dollar because in reality our dollar has never been worse than it is now!), the manufacturing shift to china, and the damp tourist economy from SARs are not Mcguinty's fault. But Mcguinty has done nothing to help the situation and has actually contributed to making it worse.
Mcguinty instituted the highest tax increase in the history of ontario the moment he was elected. He then proceeded to engage in an orgy of record spending. Spending is increasing at a rate of 8% per year while inflation is 1.9%. This money is money that is taken directly out of the economy.
Flaherty is right. Without incentive to attract new business to Ontario, old business that is already destined to leave will go away and nothing will be there to replace it. The time is now to attract new business to ontario. If we don't act now in this important time of transition, it will be too late. Once a company locates in Alberta for example, it will be a tougher sell to move it to ontario at a later date.
But Mcguinty looks the other way and the band plays on. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
It seems as if the Fed is actually trying to sabotage Ontario. What the motive is, I have no idea. Why hamstring such an important economic center? |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
Anyone really amused by this fed Cons vs Ont Libs right now?
Just watching Mike Duffy right now and I think it's outright hilarious.
Astonishing figure. Ontario budget was around 60 bil 5 yrs ago. Now 90 bil... |
it's pretty stupid.
the nature of economics is that there is not a "right" and "wrong" way to run the country...just different ways. you can't cut taxes, cut spending, pay down the debt, control the dollar, control unemployment, control inflation, keep all the provinces happy, blah blah.
you focus on what you deem to be important and some other areas will suffer.
what we're seeing is a federal gov't with a different agenda and approach than the provincial gov't...nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not taking sides...I think McGuinty and Flaherty are both douchebags who have done ty jobs in the past and are doing ty jobs now. |
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| Jayx1 |
Mark,
There is no doubt that overtaxation and over spending are squeezing the ontario economy right now.
The government cant fix all the woes we face with a magic wand but it could certainly try to alliviate the problems instead of adding to them |
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| Yohan |
Potential election date: June 9.
Just watching Mike Duffy live right now, and the Liberals are going to vote against the Conservatives on the immigration bill. |
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| MarkT |
didn't they let it pass (for now)?
Once again, another bull "confidence motion" label is placed on an issue that is NOT a confidence item. The CPC know it has no chance of passing in the House otherwise...so the typical tactic is used to bully through their agenda, despite minority support for it.
pathetic. |
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