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New propaganda BS, Israel will "disappear" (pg. 5)
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| Lemonad |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
Okay, Noah, Abraham, and Moses can all suck my dick too. Either in simultaneous harmony or one at a time.
Anyone else?
You still havent told us your stance on religion. |
Why don't you start by answering his question first. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I'm not denying those things. But to say Iran hates all things Western? That just implies a lack of understanding for Iranian culture. Yea, their government isn't a shining example of Western liberal democracy, but they aren't the Taliban. Religious dictatorship? I'de have to disagree. The Iranian people do have a say in how things are run...to a point. They voted for Mr. Ahmedinijad didn't they? |
which would mean something if Ahmedinijad was actually their leader. but since he isn't i will revert back to calling it a religious dictatorship.
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
They vote for local elections like the mayor of Tehran and other civic leaders. |
oh yeah, their wonderful elections where moderates are banned from participating. awesome.
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
But the Iranians chose it that way and you should respect that... |
right, just as you respect the fact that america wanted to invade iraq. what kind of nonsense argument is that? who says the iranians chose it that way? who says it wasn't imposed upon them?
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Using the American Revolution as an example. We fought our oppression with the ideals of John Locke and Adam Smith. The principles of individual freedom. The Iranians took a different road. Their revolution against oppression took the form of Islamic ideals. Remember how democracy failed for the Iranians? When Iranians voted for someone the US or UK didn't like, they launched a coup from where?...the US embassy...When democracy fails, and autocracy fails (under the shah), the only thing left for them was religion. They rallied to their religion. And it was religion which delivered Iran from its oppressors. Is it no wonder why the religious authorities still have enormous weight? It is the Islamic regime which made Iran free from foreign meddling, and the ravages of Iraq's Western-supported invasion of Iran. But with Islamic governance comes strict moral standards imposed by the government. Yes, this limits individual freedom which we enjoy in the West, but it is not as bad as many of you make it. They are not rounding up Christians and Jews for wholesale execution...:rolleyes: |
none of that has anything to do with whether their current political infrastructure is "right" or not. i can tout the fall of saddam hussein's iraq but that wouldn't make the invasion to oust him or the cluster that followed "right" would it?
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Oh, and they love Western music and movies if you didn't know PKC...;) |
you seem to constantly move between the state and the people where i am talking purely about the state, which certainly doesn't "love western music"
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To promote art and literature, Islamic Development Organization was founded by Ayatollah Khomeini. In 1991, Ali Khamenei revised the organization's structure and plans. The plan is to promote religious and moral ideas through art and literature.[103] According Minister of Culture, Hossein Saffar Harandi, the funds for Qur'anic activities will increase by fourfold in the year 2007. "All of the ninth governments' cultural and artistic activities should conform to the holy book," he declared.[104]
While promoting their own art and literature, fundamentalists are against the development of art and literature that has no "valuable content". In late 1996, following a fatwa by Ali Khamenei stating that music education corrupts the minds of young children, many music schools were closed and music instruction to children under the age of 16 was banned by public establishments (although private instruction continued).[105][44] Khamenei and his followers believe that "Nihilism and Beatle-ism" have ravaged Western youth.[106] According to the renowned novelist and the first president of Iranian Association of Writers after the revolution, Simin Daneshvar, Islamic Republic has been generally hostile toward Iranian writers and intellectuals. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...t_Islam_in_Iran
i am surprised to see so much apologism in this thread from people that would have a ing heart attack if the US treated its citizens the way iran treats theirs. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
My god you sound like a broken record player.Iran learder bad,Iran leader evil.Where is that gonna ge you? you think getting rid of Irans leader is gonna make this earth a better place to live?you think by removing the regime and replacing it with some in American Puppet things will turn around and the people will just sit back and let it happen?THINK AGAINN |
Hmm...people think Iraq is bad...imagine an attempted occupation of Iran. Once we get these ideologically bankrupted neocons out of office, we can start to repair America's credibility. Trust me hardcore tracer, the Bush administration is extremely unpopular in America. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
Okay, Noah, Abraham, and Moses can all suck my dick too. Either in simultaneous harmony or one at a time.
Anyone else?
You still havent told us your stance on religion. |
What has my stance on religion got to do with anything? Everything you have ever written on these forums suggest you are extremely prejudiced and biased and usually that tends to be because somebody believes they have a certain connection to an issue (eg Irish-Americans supporting IRA bombings because they have some kind of romantic fantasy about ancestral freedom fighters fighting a similar battle to the American revolutionaries, when the reality is very different). You give the impression you have some kind of connection with Israel (which would tend to be because you had a Jewish or Evangelical upbringing) which prevents you from entering into any discussion about the topic rationally
But if you must know, I'm not religious, and my attitude towards those that are is that if it is for personal spiritualism, then fine, but if it is extreme and that belief affects how you view or act towards others then I oppose it |
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| CHRles |
Finally, you answered my question. The reason I brought it up was b/c you accused me of being a very religious person. I shot back stating I'm non religious and also wanting to know your religious affiliation.
That is all :) |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
Finally, you answered my question. The reason I brought it up was b/c you accused me of being a very religious person. I shot back stating I'm non religious and also wanting to know your religious affiliation.
That is all :) |
Any chance you could answer the question I asked you in the last page?
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
If that's what you believe, then you have to tell me what status to give those people living in Gaza and West Bank in relation to the Israeli state. What do you do with the Palestinians? Grant them full Israeli citizenship? Leave them as they are as 2nd class citizens? Move them all out to other countries? |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
which would mean something if Ahmedinijad was actually their leader. but since he isn't i will revert back to calling it a religious dictatorship. |
Actually, your misinformed about the nature of the Supreme Leader. Even he is not all-powerful. Remember that the nature of a dictatorship is an all-powerful leader...
The Supreme Leader of Iran is responsible for the delineation and supervision of "the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran". The Supreme Leader is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, controls the military intelligence and security operations; and has the only power to declare war. The heads of the judiciary, state radio and television networks, the commanders of the police and military forces and six of the twelve members of the Council of Guardians are appointed by the Supreme Leader. The Assembly of Experts elects and dismisses the Supreme Leader on the basis of qualifications and popular esteem--none have ever been dismissed. The Assembly of Experts is responsible for supervising the Supreme Leader in the performance of legal duties.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Leader_of_Iran
| quote: | | oh yeah, their wonderful elections where moderates are banned from participating. awesome. |
That is unfortunate. But to call it a dictatorship, that is incorrect. They certainly aren't a liberal democracy, but they aren't a dictatorship either.
| quote: | | right, just as you respect the fact that america wanted to invade iraq. what kind of nonsense argument is that? who says the iranians chose it that way? who says it wasn't imposed upon them? |
It's called the ISLAMIC REVOLUTION. Where have you been? The people of Iran overthrew the Shah. THE PEOPLE.
| quote: | | none of that has anything to do with whether their current political infrastructure is "right" or not. i can tout the fall of saddam hussein's iraq but that wouldn't make the invasion to oust him or the cluster that followed "right" would it? |
It may not be right in your eyes, but as stated in the UN Charter, every nation has a right to SELF-DETERMINATION. They have self-determined to run their state under the banner of political Islam. You should respect that...
| quote: | | you seem to constantly move between the state and the people where i am talking purely about the state, which certainly doesn't "love western music" |
Who cares if the state doesn't love western music. Does that make Iran evil or put in a group all its own? Other states also frown upon western culture. But guess what? They can't do a damn thing about it. Why? Information. No government can stifle information. So in the end, who gives a $&%^ if the Iranian government does not like western pop culture?
LOL. I'm defending Iran because I know how it really is. It is not a dictatorship nor is Iran culturally backwards. Art and music are still taught. Western pop culture is not taught in Iranian PUBLIC schools. But they are totally free to study in a private school. Not only that, but Iran is rich with art and music. In fact, there is Iranian rock, rap, pop, and yes, ELECTRONICA!! Yes, there is techno even in Islamic Iran.
This "dictatorship" labeling to me is nothing more than propaganda. Who wouldn't support taking down a dictatorship? Labeling Iran a dictatorship is an easy way to influence public opinion towards supporting aggression against Iran. |
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| CHRles |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Any chance you could answer the question I asked you in the last page? |
George, if you may remember there was a thread recently started on that very topic. While some ppl on this board came up with ideas like moving the Jews to Hawaii, and me countering with moving Gazans to the Sinai peninsula, your suggestion was actually a pretty good one. I had actually commented so in that very thread that your answer made sense. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
George, if you may remember there was a thread recently started on that very topic. While some ppl on this board came up with ideas like moving the Jews to Hawaii, and me countering with moving Gazans to the Sinai peninsula, your suggestion was actually a pretty good one. I had actually commented so in that very thread that your answer made sense. |
Well my suggestion was that a Palestinian state should be created in land occupied by Israel since 1967 (ie Gaza and West Bank). You are saying that Israel occupies no land, insinuating that that land is Israel's by right. So which is it, you agree Israel should withdraw from Gaza and West Bank, or you think Gaza and West Bank should be part of Israel? |
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| Ssshhh |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
This thread is moot anyways - everyone knows Iran has no love of anything 'Western'... :rolleyes: |
I lol'd hard at the ignorance. Most Iranians would kill for western jeans. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
It's called the ISLAMIC REVOLUTION. Where have you been? The people of Iran overthrew the Shah. THE PEOPLE.
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The ideology of the theocratic government was what wonder the people over and within that, the convincing of the people that anything Western was evil.
This is obviously still prevalent today in their view with Israel, a Western-backed state.
With a suffocating ideology like that, how can the West possibly deal with it other than isolate it? |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ssshhh
I lol'd hard at the ignorance. Most Iranians would kill for western jeans. |
Well, materialism aside (yes, you get a cookie) - I was kinda referring more to economics / law / liberty |
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