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New propaganda BS, Israel will "disappear"
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| Lemonad |
| quote: | By Hossein Jaseb and Fredrik Dahl
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's president said on Monday Israel would soon disappear off the map and that the "satanic power" of the United States faced destruction, in his latest verbal attack on the Islamic Republic's arch-enemies.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was speaking at a gathering of foreign guests marking this week's 19th anniversary of the death of Iran's late revolutionary leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the official IRNA news agency said.
"You should know that the criminal and terrorist Zionist regime which has 60 years of plundering, aggression and crimes in its file has reached the end of its work and will soon disappear off the geographical scene," he said.
Turning to the United States, Ahmadinejad said the era of decline and destruction of its "satanic power" had begun.
Ahmadinejad, who often rails against the West, is expected to travel to Rome on Tuesday to attend a U.N. summit on global food security. It will be his first visit to western Europe since he won the presidency in 2005.
In Washington, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino described Ahmadinejad's comments as "that kind of rhetoric that just serves to further isolate the Iranian people".
U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack condemned the Iranian president's latest comments on Israel: "Again, more hateful vitriol coming from President Ahmadinejad."
The United States, which severed ties with Iran shortly after its 1979 Islamic revolution, is leading efforts to isolate Tehran over its disputed nuclear program, which the West suspects is a front for developing atomic bombs.
Washington says it wants a diplomatic resolution to the nuclear row but has not ruled out military action if that fails.
Iran, the world's fourth-largest oil producer, says its nuclear program is only aimed at generating electricity and insists it will not bow to Western pressure.
Opposition to Israel is a fundamental principle in Shi'ite Muslim Iran, which backs Palestinian militants opposed to peace with the Jewish state.
A 2005 statement by Ahmadinejad saying that Israel should be "wiped off the map" outraged the international community.
The call was originally made by Khomeini and Ahmadinejad referred to this at another speech on Monday evening at the shrine near Tehran where the Islamic Republic's founder is buried, saying "his ideal is about to be materialized today."
He added: "The Zionist regime is in a total dead end and, God willing, this desire will soon be realized and the epitome of perversion will disappear off the face of the world."
The crowd chanted "Death to Israel" and "Death to America."
In April, a senior Iranian army commander said Iran would respond to any military attack from Israel by "eliminating" it.
Some analysts have speculated that Israel might attack Iran to stop its nuclear work. Iran says it has developed ballistic missiles able to hit Israel and U.S. bases in the region. (Additional reporting by Hashem Kalantari in Tehran and by Jeremy Pelofsky and Sue Pleming in Washington; Editing by Ibon Villelabeitia |
http://www.reuters.com/article/worl...lBrandChannel=0
Now i must be blind, but can someone please show me where it actually says Israel will disappear. This new bull is circulating the news studios but it doesn't make sense.
It says the regime will disappear which isn't as harsh as Israel will disappear.
Another bull to be fed to people to start another war.
The Hawks love mixing "disappear" "wiped off the map" with "Iran is pursuing nukes", don't they? |
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| Krypton |
Iran nuking Israel? This really is the biggest bull I've heard coming from war apologists. Wiping Israel off the map? Not quite so...
| quote: | The "Wipe Israel Off The Map" Hoax
What Ahmadinejad really said and why this broken record is just another ad slogan for war
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Friday, January 26, 2007
Barely a day goes by that one can avoid reading or hearing yet another Israeli, American or British warhawk regurgitate the broken record that Iran's President Ahmadinejad threatened to "wipe Israel off the map," framed in the ridiculous context that Israelis are being targeted for a second holocaust. This baseless rallying call for conflict holds about as much credibility as Dick Cheney's assertion that Saddam Hussein was planning to light up American skies with mushroom clouds.
Today it's the turn of would-be future British Prime Minister David Cameron, leader of the Conservative Party, who repeated the "wipe Israel off he map" fraud in a speech at the World Economic Forum in Davos, using it to qualify his refusal to rule out a military strike on Iran under a Tory government.
Did Ahmadinejad really threaten to "wipe Israel off the map" or is this phrase just another jingoistic brand slogan for selling the next war in the Middle East?
The devil is in the detail, wiping Israel off the map suggests a physical genocidal assault, a literal population relocation or elimination akin to what the Nazis did. According to numerous different translations, Ahmadinejad never used the word "map," instead his statement was in the context of time and applied to the Zionist regime occupying Jerusalem. Ahmadinejad was expressing his future hope that the Zionist regime in Israel would fall, not that Iran was going to physically annex the country and its population.
To claim Ahmadinejad has issued a rallying cry to ethnically cleanse Israel is akin to saying that Churchill wanted to murder all Germans when he stated his desire to crush the Nazis. This is about the demise of a corrupt occupying power, not the deaths of millions of innocent people.
The Guardian's Jonathan Steele cites four different translations, from professors to the BBC to the New York Times and even pro-Israel news outlets, in none of those translations is the word "map" used. The closest translation to what the Iranian President actually said is, "The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time," or a narrow relative thereof. In no version is the word "map" used or a context of mass genocide or hostile military action even hinted at.
The acceptance of the word "map" seemingly originated with the New York Times, who later had to back away from this false translation. The BBC also wrongly used the word and, in comments to Steele, later accepted their mistake but refused to issue a retraction.
"The fact that he compared his desired option - the elimination of "the regime occupying Jerusalem" - with the fall of the Shah's regime in Iran makes it crystal clear that he is talking about regime change, not the end of Israel. As a schoolboy opponent of the Shah in the 1970's he surely did not favor Iran's removal from the page of time. He just wanted the Shah out," writes Steele.
"It's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote, writes Arash Norouzi, "they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution. Although he quoted Khomeini to affirm his own position on Zionism, the actual words belong to Khomeini and not Ahmadinejad. Thus, Ahmadinejad has essentially been credited (or blamed) for a quote that is not only unoriginal, but represents a viewpoint already in place well before he ever took office."
Professor Juan Cole concurs, arguing, "Now, some might say, "So he didn't say, 'wipe off the map,' he said 'erase from the page.' What's the difference? Anyway he's saying he wants to get rid of Israel. Ahmadinejad was not making a threat, he was quoting a saying of Khomeini and urging that pro-Palestinian activists in Iran not give up hope -- that the occupation of Jerusalem was no more a continued inevitability than had been the hegemony of the Shah's government. Whatever this quotation from a decades-old speech of Khomeini may have meant, Ahmadinejad did not say that 'Israel must be wiped off the map' with the implication that phrase has of Nazi-style extermination of a people. He said that the occupation regime over Jerusalem must be erased from the page of time."
Let's consider for a moment that Ahmadinejad really does wish to initiate a nuclear war on Israel, is this feasible? It would be like Paris Hilton picking a fight with Mike Tyson. The CIA's own estimates put Iran five to ten years away from being able to produce one nuclear bomb even if they were in the planning stages now, which is highly unlikely given that international inspectors have found no evidence of such a program and CIA satellite imagery also shows no proof of nuclear arms. Contrast this to an Israeli arsenal of anything up to 200 launch ready nukes allied to the might of the U.S. which has nearly 6,000 active warheads not to mention so-called "mini-nukes."
While it can be reasonably argued that Iran is seeking a nuclear weapon at some point in the future, to then claim that this means Ahmadinejad wishes to enact a second holocaust is an unfathomable leap of logic. The real reason for any nation in that region trying to acquire a nuclear weapon is for self defense, because they are surrounded by other hostile powers that already have the bomb.
Returning to the "wipe Israel off the map hoax," loathe are we to forget another of the commercial jingles concocted for hoodwinking Americans into attacking a certain other Middle Eastern country - "he used weapons of mass destruction against his own people," referring of course to Saddam Hussein's alleged role in the Halabja massacre where Iraqi Kurds were gassed. In reality, as former CIA analyst Stephen Pelletiere has revealed, Halabja came as a result of a battlefield exchange between the Iranians and the Iraqis after the Kurds had sided with the Iranians and allowed them to enter the city. According to the DIA's own report at the time, the type of gas that killed the Kurds was not used by the Iraqis but was used by the Iranians. The incident was a tragedy of war, not a directed program of genocide at the behest of Saddam Hussein.
Whenever Bush administration officials and others used Halabja as a pretext for war, the mass media routinely failed to mention the DIA report, just as they have failed to provide any balance on the real meaning of Ahmadinejad's statement, despite the fact that it is completely distorted almost every day and used as a call to arms as well as a propagandistic ploy to convince western populations that dark skinned invaders are hell-bent on their wholesale destruction. |
http://www.prisonplanet.com/article...07offthemap.htm |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lemonad
http://www.reuters.com/article/worl...lBrandChannel=0
Now i must be blind, but can someone please show me where it actually says Israel will disappear. This new bull is circulating the news studios but it doesn't make sense.
It says the regime will disappear which isn't as harsh as Israel will disappear.
Another bull to be fed to people to start another war.
The Hawks love mixing "disappear" "wiped off the map" with "Iran is pursuing nukes", don't they? |
Yes, more bull to start another war is correct. |
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| Krypton |
ok...NY Times...
| quote: | June 11, 2006
The World
Just How Far Did They Go, Those Words Against Israel?
By ETHAN BRONNER
EVER since he spoke at an anti-Zionism conference in Tehran last October, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran has been known for one statement above all. As translated by news agencies at the time, it was that Israel "should be wiped off the map." Iran's nuclear program and sponsorship of militant Muslim groups are rarely mentioned without reference to the infamous map remark.
Here, for example, is R. Nicholas Burns, the under secretary of state for political affairs, recently: "Given the radical nature of Iran under Ahmadinejad and its stated wish to wipe Israel off the map of the world, it is entirely unconvincing that we could or should live with a nuclear Iran."
But is that what Mr. Ahmadinejad said? And if so, was it a threat of war? For months, a debate among Iran specialists over both questions has been intensifying. It starts as a dispute over translating Persian but quickly turns on whether the United States (with help from Israel) is doing to Iran what some believe it did to Iraq — building a case for military action predicated on a faulty premise.
"Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian," remarked Juan Cole, a Middle East specialist at the University of Michigan and critic of American policy who has argued that the Iranian president was misquoted. "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse." Since Iran has not "attacked another country aggressively for over a century," he said in an e-mail exchange, "I smell the whiff of war propaganda."
Jonathan Steele, a columnist for the left-leaning Guardian newspaper in London, recently laid out the case this way: "The Iranian president was quoting an ancient statement by Iran's first Islamist leader, the late Ayatollah Khomeini, that 'this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time,' just as the Shah's regime in Iran had vanished. He was not making a military threat. He was calling for an end to the occupation of Jerusalem at some point in the future. The 'page of time' phrase suggests he did not expect it to happen soon."
Mr. Steele added that neither Khomeini nor Mr. Ahmadinejad suggested that Israel's "vanishing" was imminent or that Iran would be involved in bringing it about. "But the propaganda damage was done," he wrote, "and Western hawks bracket the Iranian president with Hitler as though he wants to exterminate Jews."
If Mr. Steele and Mr. Cole are right, not one word of the quotation — Israel should be wiped off the map — is accurate.
But translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his Web site (www.president.ir/eng/), refer to wiping Israel away. Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran's most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say "wipe off" or "wipe away" is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive.
The second translation issue concerns the word "map." Khomeini's words were abstract: "Sahneh roozgar." Sahneh means scene or stage, and roozgar means time. The phrase was widely interpreted as "map," and for years, no one objected. In October, when Mr. Ahmadinejad quoted Khomeini, he actually misquoted him, saying not "Sahneh roozgar" but "Safheh roozgar," meaning pages of time or history. No one noticed the change, and news agencies used the word "map" again.
Ahmad Zeidabadi, a professor of political science in Tehran whose specialty is Iran-Israel relations, explained: "It seems that in the early days of the revolution the word 'map' was used because it appeared to be the best meaningful translation for what he said. The words 'sahneh roozgar' are metaphorical and do not refer to anything specific. Maybe it was interpreted as 'book of countries,' and the closest thing to that was a map. Since then, we have often heard 'Israel bayad az naghshe jographya mahv gardad' — Israel must be wiped off the geographical map. Hard-liners have used it in their speeches."
The final translation issue is Mr. Ahmadinejad's use of "occupying regime of Jerusalem" rather than "Israel."
To some analysts, this means he is calling for regime change, not war, and therefore it need not be regarded as a call for military action. Professor Cole, for example, says: "I am entirely aware that Ahmadinejad is hostile to Israel. The question is whether his intentions and capabilities would lead to a military attack, and whether therefore pre-emptive warfare is prescribed. I am saying no, and the boring philology is part of the reason for the no."
But to others, "occupying regime" signals more than opposition to a certain government; the phrase indicates the depth of the Iranian president's rejection of a Jewish state in the Middle East because he refuses even to utter the name Israel. He has said that the Palestinian issue "does not lend itself to a partial territorial solution" and has called Israel "a stain" on Islam that must be erased. By contrast, Mr. Ahmadinejad's predecessor, Mohammad Khatami, said that if the Palestinians accepted Israel's existence, Iran would go along.
When combined with Iran's longstanding support for Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah of Lebanon, two groups that have killed numerous Israelis, and Mr. Ahmadinejad's refusal to acknowledge the Holocaust, it is hard to argue that, from Israel's point of view, Mr. Ahmadinejad poses no threat. Still, it is true that he has never specifically threatened war against Israel.
So did Iran's president call for Israel to be wiped off the map? It certainly seems so. Did that amount to a call for war? That remains an open question.
Nazila Fathi contributed reporting from Tehran for this article.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/w...agewanted=print |
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| shaolin_Z |
That works too :p. |
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| CHRles |
Oh yippee another day goes by and this board's Iran apologists post more crap.
The truth of the matter is that even Arab media posted that Iran said it wants to wipe Israel off the map. The late Khomeini said it, Iran's spiritual leader has said it, and the current president shocked the world in 2005 when he first openly said it.
http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=1&id=12956
Furthermore, the Iran apologists say we should stay out of meddling in world affairs. Guess they like it when huge numbers of people in Iran shout "death to Israel" and "death to America" over and over again. You guys consistently ignore those statements, crying that Iranians are just peace loving people who want to live and let live. Ummmm, shyeah right.
The real propaganda here is the one you psychos are trying to raise - that Iran is the innocent victim in all this. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| This thread is moot anyways - everyone knows Iran has no love of anything 'Western'... :rolleyes: |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
Oh yippee another day goes by and this board's Iran apologists post more crap.
The truth of the matter is that even Arab media posted that Iran said it wants to wipe Israel off the map. The late Khomeini said it, Iran's spiritual leader has said it, and the current president shocked the world in 2005 when he first openly said it.
http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=1&id=12956
Furthermore, the Iran apologists say we should stay out of meddling in world affairs. Guess they like it when huge numbers of people in Iran shout "death to Israel" and "death to America" over and over again. You guys consistently ignore those statements, crying that Iranians are just peace loving people who want to live and let live. Ummmm, shyeah right.
The real propaganda here is the one you psychos are trying to raise - that Iran is the innocent victim in all this. |
Taken from your own source...
""You should know that the criminal and terrorist Zionist regime which has 60 years of plundering, aggression and crimes in its file has reached the end of its work and will soon disappear off the geographical scene," he said."
Zionist regime...hmmm...hmmmmmmmmmmmm...Let's use our brains for just a second...It seems like Iran is advocating regime change...Sounds really REALLY familiar...Oh yea...That's because we have been actively practicing "regime change" for how many years now? 50? Yet, when Iran advocates a regime change, here you are, having a hissy fit. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
This thread is moot anyways - everyone knows Iran has no love of anything 'Western'... :rolleyes: |
Yea...RIGGGHT...:rolleyes:
See this is how I know you Iran haters don't know what the %*&$ you're talking about. You people think Iran is a backwards Taliban-style society. You clearly are misinformed. Are they some benign peaceful country? No. But it is clear to most that it is not Iran which poses the most dangerous threat to world peace. It is America. Answer me this...How many countries has Iran invaded in the last 100 years? |
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| Lemonad |
For anyone thinking Iran is against Western ways or is backwards, then check this link out for the photos...
http://www.worldisround.com/articles/98910/
These are just from Tehran... Esfahan is another marvel. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
See this is how I know you Iran haters don't know what the %*&$ you're talking about. You people think Iran is a backwards Taliban-style society. You clearly are misinformed. |
really? why do they kill fags then? or rape victims? why do they routinely suppress freedom of expression? western music? why have they had a habit of discouraging socialising with the other gender?
| quote: |
The Tehran spring of ten years ago has now given way to a bleak political winter. The new government continues to close down newspapers, silence dissenting voices and ban or censor books and websites. The peaceful demonstrations and protests of the Khatami era are no longer tolerated: in January [2007] security forces attacked striking bus drivers in Tehran and arrested hundreds of them. In March police beat hundreds of men and women who had assembled to commemorate International Women's Day |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Iran
nothing like a good bashing of women to celebrate women's day!
more info on iran's history of human rights abuses according to wiki
not saying the US should invade of course, but let's not pretend the (real) government of the day is anything but a religious dictatorship. |
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