Originally posted by George Smiley
Well if there isn't a chance to criticise America for somethin then what's the point of criticising at all?!
Maybe you didn't notice George, but I'm an American, explaining why to an Australian. Who, in most likely hood, should have an irrational pro-American bias again? :conf:
George Smiley
quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Maybe you didn't notice George, but I'm an American, explaining why to an Australian. Who, in most likely hood, should have an irrational pro-American bias again? :conf:
There is a general feeling amongst the far left (which I don't think you, or anyone else who posts in here for that matter, belongs to) that America is the root of all evils. Every international event can be attributed to America. Even the current Georgian conflict is America's fault. They seem to operate under some kind of formula where they feed in America as the constant and the formula tells them how America can either be blamed for something or other. I even see posts on other forums where someone actually asks for information on how they can blame America for a given event/conflict! The far left have become incapable of viewing anything that happens in international affairs without looking for ways to blame America for it, and that is what my tongue in cheek comment to PKC was aimed at, not you
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Contrived or not, maybe because it was a predictable consequence even Dick Cheney has been well aware of well before any of this happened. From the horses mouth:
So intelligent people don't really buy this incompetence BS facade / excuse. And none of this would have happened with out US intervention, or the desecration of Imam Hussein's and his tribes grave sides and bombing of the mosque. And perhaps you don't like holding leaders accountable for the predictable consequences of their actions, but level headed people do... making the US 100% responsible for it. Being a centrist isn't necessarily a rational choice, especially when logic and elementary ethics dictates otherwise ;).
yeah, i wasn't really asking a question there. i just wanted to point out that not all of the responsibility lies with the US to our resident america-haters, and that throwing around numbers like 100,000 is a little disingenuous.
i would also like to hear why you believe the US was responsible for the bombing of the mosque (which i believe you have stated before), which i find a little hard to swallow considering it goes against virtually any US goal you might care to name. the US were big losers from that bombing.
quote:
There is a general feeling amongst the far left (which I don't think you, or anyone else who posts in here for that matter, belongs to) that America is the root of all evils. Every international event can be attributed to America. Even the current Georgian conflict is America's fault. They seem to operate under some kind of formula where they feed in America as the constant and the formula tells them how America can either be blamed for something or other. I even see posts on other forums where someone actually asks for information on how they can blame America for a given event/conflict! The far left have become incapable of viewing anything that happens in international affairs without looking for ways to blame America for it, and that is what my tongue in cheek comment to PKC was aimed at, not you
i agree with george here. point fingers when they deserve to be pointed, but dont try to reduce everything to "its the US' fault" as if the world doesn't have other states and actors.
LazFX
I find it a little funny and sad, that the same people that accuse the US of violating people's rights and or other countries rights, put Che up on a pedestal. It kind of like the US jumping down Russia's throat for invading Georgia while at the same time invading Iraq... ING STUPID! but I digress....
quote:
"To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary...These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate." --Ernesto 'Che' Guevara
=============================
"Crazy with fury I will stain my rifle red while slaughtering any enemy that falls in my hands! My nostrils dilate
while savoring the acrid odor of gunpowder and blood. With the deaths of my enemies I prepare my being for
the sacred fight and join the triumphant proletariat with a bestial howl!"
"Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his
natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine. This is
what our soldiers must become � " Che Guevara
============
"I am much more valuable to you alive than dead," Che Guevara
Many moons ago I flirted with the idolization of Che, to the dismay of my Mexican,Cuban and South American relatives and family friends . I was taken back by his colorful past that seems to be the rage of the half truths and ignorance ( I was in university and I KNEW EVERYTHING!! ;) ). I wanted to travel Latin America and help out the poor; after all I just read his diary, some bios and plus a helping of Jack Kerouac's "On The Road" really made me want to go.... :)
I was writing a paper on Che and I sat down with an ex-pat from Cuba that told me a story of how Che and his brute squad came to seize his father's farm "for the people". Of course he and his older brothers did not resist cause the country was still in transition and many of the things Castro promised seemed to be a great idea. However his family was rounded up and taken to La Cabaïa Fortress. There they were imprisoned, beat and then his older brother and father were executed via firing squad. The charge?? Owning a farm that was needed by "the people". He and several others escaped by some miracle and left Cuba. This same old man use to sit and drink a shot of whiskey every anniversary of Che's death and then go to church to light candles for everyone he personally knew that died under Che's hand.
One time my father accompanied him and my father told me it was like a wall of flame.....
This man and several of the viejos hombres that I basically grew up with (my dad had a 22 piece orchastra back in the days, and no it was not Tejano :rolleyes: ) were not the "Rich and well off" that you always here of when you read or learn about the Cuban Revolution, these guys were all middle to working class farmers, teachers, Drs and just average joes. But every single one of them always wanted to talk to me about Che and Castro, due to my flirtation with Che in m younger years. Thanks to my grandfather.. :)
here is a real good Doc about Che...sorry its in Spanish, but you TAs are a smart bunch ;)
quote:
Hear the testimony of those who knew Ernesto Guevara, alias Che, and of those who suffered from his many crimes. The real story of this man told by those who knew him.
=========
The exact number of Che's Cuban victims has not been verified, but include people he personally
executed and those put to death under his orders. Che�s biographers consistently report that he sent
thousands to the firing squad. Over 4,000 deaths are documented to have taken place in Cuba, mostly
firing squad execution, in the first three years after Fidel Castro�s takeover (1959-1962). Che Guevara
was one of the regimes chief executioners during this period and is said to have acknowledged ordering
"several thousand" executions. All took place without affording the victims fair trials and due process of law.
The following list is not exhaustive and only includes cases for which historic reference is known. Names are
cited as reported; dates and additional details for most are available. Combat deaths caused by Che in Cuba
and killings in countries where he led guerrilla operations have not been tallied.
Also I found this telling of some attitudes in "Che territory"
quote:
Monument to Che Guevara in Venezuela was destroyed only nine days after being inaugurated...
Bust of the Argentinean mercenary beheaded by unhappy Venezuelans
Some Venezuelans, unhappy with the betrayal of their president Hugo Chavez who has become a puppet
of Cuban dictator Fidel Castro, beheaded a bust of Argentinean mercenary che Guevara in Caracas.
Cuban ambassador to Venezuela, German Sanchez Otero, and a bunch of pro-Chavez sympathizers,
including a moron yelling "viva che, viva che," applaud during the official presentation of a bust of Guevara.
But some Venezuelans who are unhappy at seeing that Chavez is spending billions of dollars of their own
money to keep the Cuban dictator in power, beheaded the bust of the Argentinean mercenary as can be
seen in this photo taken in Caracas on Saturday January 7. (Thanks to 'Nilochiqui' for these photos) http://www.therealcuba.com/MurderedbyChe.htm
oh well it just MHO on the Che thread at Trance Addict PDD forum, the Corner Stone of Political Thought!!!
take what you will..
peace
Fir3start3r
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i think the various groups inside iraq killed more people than the US. why doesn't anyone ever lay the blame at their feet? :conf:
)
There's too much myoptic BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) to possibly notice anything outside his administration in this forum pkc...
/and no I'm not making excuses for Bush either so lets not make such simplistic connections...
LazFX
quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
)
There's too much myoptic BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) to possibly notice anything outside his administration in this forum pkc...
/and no I'm not making excuses for Bush either so lets not make such simplistic connections...
STFU!!! You are an idiot and a sheep...
,
,
,
,
,
,,
:D
just replying for the BDS kids ;)
i like that... BDS. :)
oh and I can't stand Bush, but I don't let that blind my view points as some here..... that brink on Paranoia... :nervous:
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i think the various groups inside iraq killed more people than the US. why doesn't anyone ever lay the blame at their feet? :conf:
Causation by the collapse of law & order in Iraq which was itself caused by the invasion of "Operation Iraqi Freedom".
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
)
There's too much myoptic BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) to possibly notice anything outside his administration in this forum pkc...
/and no I'm not making excuses for Bush either so lets not make such simplistic connections...
Nice, making up medical terms to describe opposition and rationalization against the president's policy..:rolleyes:
Is that all you've got? Bush Derangement Syndrome? I guess so since you can't even defend the president's corrupt policies. I have every right to oppose the president's policies....BDS..lol..:rolleyes: :stongue:
shaolin_Z
Wouldn't Bush Degenerate Syndrome be more accurate? :p
shaolin_Z
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
yeah, i wasn't really asking a question there. i just wanted to point out that not all of the responsibility lies with the US to our resident america-haters, and that throwing around numbers like 100,000 is a little disingenuous.
i would also like to hear why you believe the US was responsible for the bombing of the mosque (which i believe you have stated before), which i find a little hard to swallow considering it goes against virtually any US goal you might care to name. the US were big losers from that bombing.
I've already answered all that and given my reasons in the past, you just want me to agree with you so we can be even more chilled when we're getting blazed ;) :p.
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
I've already answered all that and given my reasons in the past, you just want me to agree with you so we can be even more chilled when we're getting blazed ;) :p.
but i found your answers lacking :p
shaolin_Z
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
but i found your answers lacking :p
You're missing a tinfoil hat, not to mention you have to be nuts like me ;).
