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Matt Cerf, Jaren, Shawn Mitiska + more on 5/2/09 @ CIRCUS (pg. 6)
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| RobertStern |
| quote: | Originally posted by in2muzikk
I have to wonder if this is something the DJ has control over then, or if it's something to do with the offstage sound setup, or both? Strange how some DJ's seem to get right, but not others.
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At Circus, the Dj's only affect this about 10%. As they cap off the DJ's limit at a control booth. So, the Dj really can't mess things up too much, unless they are smokin crack and just full redlining everything, even then with the Pioneer DJM-800 Mixer, it's nearly impossible for it to send a Clipped signal. |
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| in2muzikk |
| quote: | Originally posted by RobertStern
At Circus, the Dj's only affect this about 10%. As they cap off the DJ's limit at a control booth. So, the Dj really can't mess things up too much, unless they are smokin crack and just full redlining everything, even then with the Pioneer DJM-800 Mixer, it's nearly impossible for it to send a Clipped signal. |
Interesting, does anyone ever test the db level in there? If not, can I bring my meter inside (it's smaller than my camera)? |
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| RobertStern |
| quote: | Originally posted by 72hrpartyanimal
fix the sound and lighting. remodel, renovate. do something. we've all said this each week for years now.
a sound technician will only go so far. he can't turn into gold |
Here is the thing... The system that is installed at Circus is Top Notch, maybe a little old, but its basically the same exact stuff that Avalon has. In, some cases, Circus even has better stuff.
What would be best is to have an EAW QUALIFIED & TRAINED Club Sound Engineer to come out and properly calibrate the system. Maybe they might need to add a couple speakers to balance things out. For the most part the stuff Circus already has is great. If properly calibrated and tuned, it would sound incredible. As long as there is someone on staff who knows how to manage it daily for each event.
When I worked at Avalon, this was just the way things went. There were guys there who went to school for audio engineering who run the sound and the production. Each event was treated brand new and everything was tested and sound checked way before the event started.
This should be part of the everyday routine of any good club that has different performers all the time. ESPECIALLY when you are going to have anyone on a Microphone singing.
The sound of the system changes over time and has to constantly be maintained by Professionals who are trained in the art. You will never see someone like Tiesto or PVD perform without a proper soundcheck.
So, you add all this up and if implemented would have a financial cost, but in the long run would pay huge dividends, because if it happened word would spread and more people will come and/or want to play there.
Anyhow, It would be cool if this stuff actually got implemented at Circus, I know a lot of people love to go there and it would make the experience so much better. |
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| RobertStern |
| quote: | Originally posted by in2muzikk
Interesting, does anyone ever test the db level in there? If not, can I bring my meter inside (it's smaller than my camera)? |
I could tell you it's better for you not to know! ;)
Most clubs sound levels you should expose yourself to for longer than 30 minutes.
The sound is anywhere from like 105-120 db at most clubs. I know at times Avalon has been as high as 124db, I can tell you from experience Vanguard is high up there too greater than 110+.
There is never gonna a be a day where the sound is set at 100 or below, that kinda defeats the role of a club.
If you want to protect yourself, be proactive. I can tell you from experience that I didn't and now I am paying the price. But, I love the way it sounds when its loud and not distorted. So, I guess it sucks to be me. |
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| alpha.wav |
| quote: | Originally posted by TSG
FYI... I've sent an email to management regarding the issue and about this thread. |
in2musikk - that was a great video, thanks for sharing!!!!
I missed this night (unhappily, since I wanted to hear Jaren's live vocals) but I must say I'm AMAZED & DISAPPOINTED to read these comments about the sound system. Haven't we been through this before? Nobody in management been listening huh? :rolleyes: :mad: :mad: :mad:
I too, have joined in2musikk's crusade to "TAME THE BULL" (so to speak) - "THE BULL" being the awesome power of the CIRCUS sound system. These are not your home sound systems (and speakers) that easily distort when you bump them. These are HIGH POWER speakers, and when the speakers @ CIRCUS distort, that means that something is VERY WRONG with the sound system power output / sound curve (or other), and whoever tunes the system before the club opens has to be careful of the peaks the system puts out in the main room especially. The system at CIRCUS is overdriving (hitting red too much). I always stare at the 'wall of sound' close to the coat check and want to reach in to tune everything because I see the red peaks way to often. It's not supposed tobe that way, especially Now that they re-configured the club's dj booth, the output needs to be much LESS (because it's a closer, tighter space, not the elongated rectangle that it used to be). Give me a napkin and I will draw it out for you. Furthermore, because these are professional, high-power systems, these systems need to be PROPERLY TUNED, EQ'ed, TAMED & MAINTAINED!!!
If you guys need help tuning the system, I will VOLUNTEER to help you tune it, im available Wed Thu Fri or possibly Sat before the club opens. Even if you hire a pro to tune it, I still will volunteer to be there while he tunes it, so I can give my opinion. I believe that CIRCUS has a lot going for it, I can feel the vibe coming back, but way too many people are complaining on the sound being too loud, so that has to be fixed. I also believe that the change in the DJ booth location WAS A GOOD IDEA, because it keeps the crowd more tight and intimate, making for a better vibe all nite. But again, and I keep repeating myself here:whip: , the loudness and sound quality issue has to be worked out before RANK1 and TALLA 2XLC take the stage, since how can CIRCUS grow again if many people are unhappy w/ the sound quality and loudness? You can't blame the DJ because the system can be capped on the mains, and furthermore, if djs are told how high they can / should take the system beforehand, most (if not all) will follow those instructions. Much love, and for comments or anything post here or PM me or send me an email [email protected] :tongue3
P.S. Robert HELP US OUT MAN! DO IT FOR THE KARMA! :stongue: |
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| in2muzikk |
| quote: | Originally posted by RobertStern
I could tell you it's better for you not to know! ;)
Most clubs sound levels you should expose yourself to for longer than 30 minutes.
The sound is anywhere from like 105-120 db at most clubs. I know at times Avalon has been as high as 124db, I can tell you from experience Vanguard is high up there too greater than 110+.
There is never gonna a be a day where the sound is set at 100 or below, that kinda defeats the role of a club.
If you want to protect yourself, be proactive. I can tell you from experience that I didn't and now I am paying the price. But, I love the way it sounds when its loud and not distorted. So, I guess it sucks to be me. |
So here's the thing: I really do want to know. I want to protect myself and others from going deaf, having horrible ringing in the ears for life (tinnitus), and hearing normal noises too loud on a daily basis (hyperacusis). I authored the Official Trance Addicts Hear it All forum that goes into GREAT depth about these issues:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=408678
Let's put Circus at a level of 105-120 on the chart below and see how long a person can go without damaging their hearing:
Decibel Exposure Time Guidelines
Accepted standards for recommended permissible exposure time for continuous time weighted average noise, according to NIOSH and CDC, 2002. For every 3 dBs over 85dB, the permissible exposure time before possible damage can occur is cut in half.
Continuous dB Permissible Exposure Time
85 db 8 hours
88 dB 4 hours
91 db 2 hours
94 db 1 hour
97 db 30 minutes
100 db 15 minutes
103 db 7.5 minutes
106 dB 3.75 min (< 4min)
109 dB 1.875 min (< 2min)
112 dB .9375 min (~1 min)
115 dB .46875 min (~30 sec)
I guess at that level, Circus would be somewhere between 30 seconds and 5 minutes. With properly inserted 32db attenuation earplugs (the strongest available hearing protection short of external earmuffs), that level drops to a range of 73db to 88db, or good for 4 hours plus. Problem is that only a very small percentage of people can achieve that NRR rating, the average is more like 20db reduction. That gives a range of 85db to 100db, or 15 minutes to 8 hours.
The problem with estimating a range of "105 to 120" is that the permissible time exposure gets cut in half every 3 db, so the difference between these two levels is huge! So if it was 123db instead of 120db, cut everything in half again...
I'm guessing that Circus was 120+ on Saturday night. With 20db attenuation from earplugs (foam, Etymotic ER-20's, custom musician's plugs, whatever), which is in the realistic range, even with earplugs it was safe to be inside the club for only about 15 minutes!
So if someone wants to explode every bit of space between their ears without any hearing protection, that's up to them. If someone is trying to protect themselves from hearing damage to the maximum extent possible and they can still stay in the club for only 15 minutes, then I believe something has gone far beyond wrong!
I mean, if it's not safe to be in there for more than 15 minutes with earplugs in, then it's not worth going imo. With more accurate readings, I would better be able to base such decisions on the facts, rather than guessing that a club was in a range of 105-120db, possibly less, maybe more...but we're really not gonna say because that would scare the hell out of everyone. WTF??? :wtf: |
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| RobertStern |
Just to put things into perspective..
If you have a db meter, go roll your windows down and drive around in your car.
Probably going to be around 85-90db plus.
A set of standard ipod headphones and an ipod turned all the way up will hit 103db+
Painful
150 dB = rock music peak
140 dB = firearms, air raid siren, jet engine
130 dB = jackhammer
120 dB = jet plane take-off, amplified rock music at 4-6 ft., car stereo, band practice
Extremely Loud
110 dB = rock music, model airplane
106 dB = timpani and bass drum rolls
100 dB = snowmobile, chain saw, pneumatic drill
90 dB = lawnmower, shop tools, truck traffic, subway
Very Loud
80 dB = alarm clock, busy street
70 dB = busy traffic, vacuum cleaner
60 dB = conversation, dishwasher
Moderate
50 dB = moderate rainfall
40 dB = quiet room
Faint
30 dB = whisper, quiet library |
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| GPC |
| Hearing damage is also frequency dependent but I haven't been able to come across any spl vs frequency charts. I know your ears can take a lot more bass than higher frequencies. |
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| skell |
| quote: | Originally posted by GPC
Last time Rank 1 was at Circus, the sound was really good so we can only hope. |
Unless they fixed it later that night, I recall it being really bad, as it has been. We bounced over to Avalon where the difference was night and day. Sad. |
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| in2muzikk |
| Distance from the source and surroundings are also key. Airport baggage handlers always wear earmuffs and 150db at Dodger Stadium is different at the back than up front. If there's ever a jet engine inside Circus, I don't want to be anywhere around it! :clown: |
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| alpha.wav |
bumpy bump!
:D
so, are we / is Circus going to take care of this b4 this Sat.'s MASSIVE RANK 1 VS. TALLA 2XLC TRANCE PARTY?
thas all i wanna know;) |
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| GPC |
| quote: | Originally posted by skell
Unless they fixed it later that night, I recall it being really bad, as it has been. We bounced over to Avalon where the difference was night and day. Sad. |
It had been a while since I had been to Avalon but we went to After Hour after JOOP at Circus and was suprised by the sound difference. I will have to agree. Avalon sounded great. But very, very loud as well. |
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