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Government mandated sterilization (pg. 4)
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Brian Scott
What part of "heinous crimes" did you not understand? |
my appologies, i thought you meant in addition to. |
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| idoru |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
I don't advocate having some sort of evaluation for parents that have the means, and all the things needed to raise a child. I am talking about people such as the mentally ill that do not have the capacity. I think that evaluating regular people like you and me, would be a very slippery slope that would result in a lot of false positives for both the "good" and the "bad" deemed parents. |
What, really? "Hey there, buddy. Look, I know you were born with this serious condition, or some drunk driver T-boned you and now you have serious mental issues. You still want that family you dreamed of? Sorry, but I don't think I'm going to allow that. I'm gonna have to sterilize you now."
You're really going to add insult to injury in those situations? Oh, sure, I don't think that many mentally unstable people should be parents, but there's just something about denying them the fundamental "right" ("right" is used loosely here, people) of child birth that seems wrong to me. Having said that, how many mentally ill people have you seen lugging around their own children? I know I've never seen a single one before.
Unless just like your first post you're using these terms very broadly, thus causing a whole boatload of confusion on my part. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
If you endorse the general principle that government has the right to sterilize people, then when somebody else comes into power you or people you like might come up for sterilization. When you make a law, you set a precedent for people to make that general kind of law.
;) |
Looks like my point went unanswered. :o |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by idoru
Having said that, how many mentally ill people have you seen lugging around their own children? I know I've never seen a single one before. |
Because they are taken away. My landlord is a nurse at a mental hospital, and they get women that are getting preggo all the time. They don't have the capacity to take care of a kid, and the kid is immediately turned over to the state. Mind you, some of these women (I don't know any sort of statistics) were doing this 2, 3 and even 4 times. What then? |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Looks like my point went unanswered. :o |
Sorry, I answered so many the first time I didn't realize I missed it.
I find that you can't approach these types of things with emotion. It sounds harsh, and cold, but you just can't. I would be mad I am sure, but, sometimes you just have to put your emotions aside.
If my friend were some crazy psychotic schizo, I would hope he/she got fixed/sterilized. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
Sorry, I answered so many the first time I didn't realize I missed it.
I find that you can't approach these types of things with emotion. It sounds harsh, and cold, but you just can't. I would be mad I am sure, but, sometimes you just have to put your emotions aside.
If my friend were some crazy psychotic schizo, I would hope he/she got fixed/sterilized. |
You missed the point.
Okay, so you think it's justified to sterilize a "psycho" or "retard" or a homeless person. This means that you also necessarily support the idea that the government ought to have the legal right to sterilize anyone it judges "unfit." But the standard of what is "unfit" will vary depending upon who is in power, meaning that someone with totally different standards to your own might gain power and judge it proper to sterilize, say, someone with different political convictions, or blacks, or Jews, or whomever. This is the danger of granting the general power of forced sterilization. |
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| idoru |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
Because they are taken away. My landlord is a nurse at a mental hospital, and they get women that are getting preggo all the time. They don't have the capacity to take care of a kid, and the kid is immediately turned over to the state. Mind you, some of these women (I don't know any sort of statistics) were doing this 2, 3 and even 4 times. What then? |
It still doesn't seem to make it "right" to me to force sterilization upon people. Also, Jive's bringing up a very great point here. |
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| Konijn |
| the u.s. supreme court upheld forced sterilizations in the 1920s [buck v bell] until they were overturned a few years later. apparently some germans got a little carried away with the whole eugenics thing making it quite distasteful by the '40s. |
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| idoru |
| quote: | Originally posted by Konijn
the u.s. supreme court upheld forced sterilizations in the 1920s [buck v bell] until they were overturned a few years later. apparently some germans got a little carried away with the whole eugenics thing making it quite distasteful by the '40s. |
Also, this. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
You missed the point.
Okay, so you think it's justified to sterilize a "psycho" or "retard" or a homeless person. This means that you also necessarily support the idea that the government ought to have the legal right to sterilize anyone it judges "unfit." But the standard of what is "unfit" will vary depending upon who is in power, meaning that someone with totally different standards to your own might gain power and judge it proper to sterilize, say, someone with different political convictions, or blacks, or Jews, or whomever. This is the danger of granting the general power of forced sterilization. |
Ahh, yes I did.
In that case, I don't disagree. I believe, but of course I could be way off, that there could be a way to keep that from happening on a large scale. I think it would be ed up to happen at all, but there will always be those rogue s. What you can do to curb it? I don't know specifically right now, as I had never thought it that far through. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by idoru
It still doesn't seem to make it "right" to me to force sterilization upon people. |
But is it right for them to bring a kid into this world just to give it up? Neither is really better than the other. |
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| idoru |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
But is it right for them to bring a kid into this world just to give it up? Neither is really better than the other. |
Agreed. I just seem to be looking at the whole "basic/equal rights" part of the thing more than anything, hence my position. |
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