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Government mandated sterilization (pg. 6)
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by nchs09
I know, im just joking
seriously though, upload that and pm me the link or something
post something related to the topic? ehhh.. my input on it is prob not applicable to the US or CAN or EU because we have free healthcare in guatemala where, if you cant afford medical attention, you go to the public hospital, make a line and get treated. Most of the country (i think 70%) live under the poverty line
so it doesnt really apply to what you guys are talking about.... only great thing is that for regular people who can afford it, if you go to a doctor where you pay, you DONT wait..... having to pay a doctor and waiting for HOURS is the most bull thing iv seen EVER
Maybe that didnt make sense.. imd runk |
Wrong thread n00b :p |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Groups can be reproductively isolated without being geographically isolated. It's not a given that everyone will mate with everyone else. Consider the fact that until very recently "interracial" mating was fairly uncommon in Western countries.
It's not necessarily easy to tell what traits are being selected for or against, but that doesn't automatically mean you can deny that selection is taking place. Just look at what sorts of people aren't reproducing. |
ill repeat what i said before. As gene flow increases, selection pressure decreases. Its a rule. So your argument is that we are being more liberal as the barriers of mating have been lifted. Gene flow is thus increasing and selection pressure/speciation likelyhood is decreasing. |
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| nchs09 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
Wrong thread n00b :p |
oh ... pwn
Ill just leave TA before i say another stupid drunken thing :/ |
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| Sunsnail |
| government sterilization and licenses to have children repulse me on a very deep and primal level, kinda like rape does. that deep sense of knowing something is wrong |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
ill repeat what i said before. As gene flow increases, selection pressure decreases. Its a rule. So your argument is that we are being more liberal as the barriers of mating have been lifted. Gene flow is thus increasing and selection pressure/speciation likelyhood is decreasing. |
Evolution is not just about speciation. It's about changes in allele frequency, which may or may not involve speciation, and can occur with or without geographic isolation. |
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| idoru |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
government sterilization and licenses to have children repulse me on a very deep and primal level, kinda like rape does. that deep sense of knowing something is wrong |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Evolution is not just about speciation. It's about changes in allele frequency, which may or may not involve speciation, and can occur with or without geographic isolation. |
right so what is evolving?
one guy has 6 fingers
one guy has 3 toes
one guy is einstein
one guy is joe black
if there isn't a gear towards speciation then whats the point of saying we are evolving? evolving into what? A huge pile of genes that spit out phenotypes once in a blue moon?
illogical use of the term evolution.
As gene flow increases (Which it is i'm sure you're not arguing with me on this) selection pressure decreases. Which means traits are less likely to be passed on and amplified.
We are basicaly heading to, Hardy weinberg equilibrium even though it is a theoretical state. That is allele frequencies remain constant from generatoin to generation due to homogenization and globalization (liberal mating and increased gene flow).
In order for evolution or natural selection to occur we must have the following:
non random mating
genetic drift (isolation)
mutations
gene flow (occuring to create some variability and selectable traits) |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit |
So your argument is that allele frequencies aren't changing at all? That there is no differential reproduction going on? |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
So your argument is that allele frequencies aren't changing at all? That there is no differential reproduction going on? |
that can never occur obviously because hardy weinberg equilibrium is theoretical.
maybe im mixing up terminology here. What i am meaning to say is although there are different allele frequencies and they are changing, without some sort of selection pressure and isolation we cannot have evolution.
Allele frequencies are changing. But as you increase gene flow you reduce selection pressure. You need to isolate for a genotype in order to evolve.
Differential reproduction is reducing due to globalization. You said it yourself now we have interacial mating. This is causing more gene flow less selective pressure. |
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| Sunsnail |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
that can never occur obviously because hardy weinberg equilibrium is theoretical.
maybe im mixing up terminology here. What i am meaning to say is although there are different allele frequencies and they are changing, without some sort of selection pressure and isolation we cannot have evolution.
Allele frequencies are changing. But as you increase gene flow you reduce selection pressure. You need to isolate for a genotype in order to evolve.
Differential reproduction is reducing due to globalization. You said it yourself now we have interacial mating. This is causing more gene flow less selective pressure. |
Are you calling me a shark or alligator? |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
maybe im mixing up terminology here. What i am meaning to say is although there are different allele frequencies and they are changing, without some sort of selection pressure and isolation we cannot have evolution. |
Whatever causes people not to have kids, or not to have as many kids as other people, is a "selection pressure." Right now it looks like those things are stuff like (1) being wealthy (2) being highly educated (3) living in a former Communist nation. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Whatever causes people not to have kids, or not to have as many kids as other people, is a "selection pressure." Right now it looks like those things are stuff like (1) being wealthy (2) being highly educated (3) living in a former Communist nation. |
so how are alleles being segregated for?
Do poor people have certain alleles? and rich people have others? Or educated people and communists?
as long as random mating is occuring (people mating outside these constraints you listed) segregation of the alleles is reduced (although i highly doubt there is a correlation between certain alleles and any of the constraints you listed) and evolution does not take a direction. |
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