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Government mandated sterilization (pg. 5)
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by idoru
Agreed. I just seem to be looking at the whole "basic/equal rights" part of the thing more than anything, hence my position. |
Which is good. I didn't think TOO far into it before I posted. I just overall, wanted to spark the discussion more than anything. See what ideas would be floated, full well knowing that I was being very broad and in some aspects vague. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
But is it right for them to bring a kid into this world just to give it up? Neither is really better than the other. |
you really sound like hitler now lol, i bet he used some of the same reasoning to rally the germans.
Im kidding around. I obviously see your point. But the picture isnt so clear cut.
It takes 2 to tango and reproduce. People that are disabled can lead lives and raise kids with their potentially non disabled partners. There are also different levels of disability and retardation, how would you make the classification? No blacks on the bus? People who are diabled or mentally retarted, especialy those who are autistic or with down syndrome, can sense when they are singled out and their rights are violated for a prejudice against their being.
Tubular bills just got out of AA, would you steralize him too? People can recover and change.
The next step would be to say african americans are the poorest statistically so we should steralize them.
Or asians are bad drivers, lets steralize them to build safer transit.
Or people of semetic origin (arabs and jews) are hot headed and irrational, lets steralize them too lol.
Rights are rights and human beings should not be ostracized based on their status or genetics.
Its plain and simple. This is what should distinguish us from animals. Evolution through selection stops at us. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
Evolution through selection stops at us. |
How do you figure that? |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
How do you figure that? |
Maybe natural selection is what i meant to say
We basically control our environment. There would probably have to be some catastrophic events to occur and isolation of populations in order for traits to be isolated.
Perhaps when our carrying capacity is reached? Keep in mind when we have traits that are selected against, we can fix ourselves through medicine and surgery. Random mating is occuring so speciation will be difficult.
I just don't see our species really evolving. I think it would be wipped out first.
allosaurus lived for 35million years. Do you think we can beat that?
we're at around 200,000 right now. Do you see it feasable that a certain group of people (saying we contain our civil structure) will choose not to breeed with other people to the point where if they did try they would be incapable? I think we are going in the other direction and gene flow is expanding, thus reducing speciation (the goal of evolution). |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
Maybe natural selection is what i meant to say
We basically control our environment. There would probably have to be some catastrophic events to occur and isolation of populations in order for traits to be isolated. |
Speciation doesn't necessarily require geographic isolation. Also, even if humans don't split into two or more species, that doesn't mean traits are no longer being selected for. It just means that these traits aren't the kind that prohibit reproduction. Evolution doesn't always mean "speciation," it just means changes in frequency of alleles within a population. That might lead to speciation or it might not. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
Agreed, but where would you draw the line? |
Precisely.. there is no way to objectively test fitness for parenthood but I wish there were. If we were to limit parenthood it should be a privilege that everyone accross the board has to apply for and undergo testing to earn. But forced sterilization based on pre-determined criteria opens the doors for abuse which would far outweigh the benefits IMHO.. similar to my views on capital punishment. |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
Do you believe in the forced sterilization of people that are totally unfit to birth and care for children?
I do. Homeless, drug addicts, the mentally retarded, and the likes should be imho.
discuss. :) |
I think people who are clearly incapable of taking care of themselves should not be able to reproduce.
Eg. Someone who is mentally retarded/deranged etc. to the point in which they are incapable of sustaining their own life should not be allowed to have a child. If you cannot take care of yourself, then how can you take care of someone else?
It is not fair to put a child into a situation that right from the get-go has to be the adult, has to be their own care-giver and the care-giver of their parent.
Additionally, as Ben mentioned, when these situations do occur, often times the children are removed from the home and put into the system. Either option is ty for them.
Although I agree that it doesn't seem very fair to the people involved, it also isn't fair to the children and to all of the tax-payers who inevitably end up paying for the children who don't have fit parents.
In an ideal world, if something like that could be executed fairly without risk of corruption/abuse, I'd be all for it. Reality suggests however, that it probably wouldn't happen that way, so I wouldn't advocate for it to be put into place. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Speciation doesn't necessarily require geographic isolation. Also, even if humans don't split into two or more species, that doesn't mean traits are no longer being selected for. It just means that these traits aren't the kind that prohibit reproduction. Evolution doesn't always mean "speciation," it just means changes in frequency of alleles within a population. That might lead to speciation or it might not. |
As gene flow increases the likelyhood of speciation decreases.
how do you select for favorable and non favorable traits if everyone is mating and no one is dying and eliminating their genes?
What traits allow us to surive in our environment?
Big? you can go to a gym, do steroids or eat alot
Smart? you can learn and be educated, the resources are pretty much there for alot of populations
Clever?
blond?
blue eyes?
brown eyes?
there is no direction or environmental selection pressure except for maybe intelligence. Intelligence for the most part is learned through a young age and thus there is no clear genetic factor. Selection is based on genetics and certain traits need to be eliminated for others to thrive. |
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| nchs09 |
Karim... i demand you post a link to that old 80s mix... i dont have it and i want to hear it
Still to date, only mix that makes me cum bucketz
NAO!
You are still weird and look like you took steroids btw :p |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| post something related to the topic. Ill try and up the 80s mix again i have to find it though. and for the record i never took steroids and i am wierd. |
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| nchs09 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
post something related to the topic. Ill try and up the 80s mix again i have to find it though. and for the record i never took steroids and i am wierd. |
I know, im just joking
seriously though, upload that and pm me the link or something
post something related to the topic? ehhh.. my input on it is prob not applicable to the US or CAN or EU because we have free healthcare in guatemala where, if you cant afford medical attention, you go to the public hospital, make a line and get treated. Most of the country (i think 70%) live under the poverty line
so it doesnt really apply to what you guys are talking about.... only great thing is that for regular people who can afford it, if you go to a doctor where you pay, you DONT wait..... having to pay a doctor and waiting for HOURS is the most bull thing iv seen EVER
Maybe that didnt make sense.. imd runk |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
As gene flow increases the likelyhood of speciation decreases.
how do you select for favorable and non favorable traits if everyone is mating and no one is dying and eliminating their genes? |
Groups can be reproductively isolated without being geographically isolated. It's not a given that everyone will mate with everyone else. Consider the fact that until very recently "interracial" mating was fairly uncommon in Western countries.
It's not necessarily easy to tell what traits are being selected for or against, but that doesn't automatically mean you can deny that selection is taking place. Just look at what sorts of people aren't reproducing. |
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