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TTC Employee who earned more than 125 000 arrested for stealing fares (pg. 6)
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| smuncky |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Get rid of the streetcars
automate the fares
break the union..
Then maybe we can actually afford a subway network like what we should have! |
It's funny how simple you think things are. |
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| d-form |
The 2009 TTC operating budget has an 87 million dollar shortfall. This does not include expansion or the rapid rail system. Just to keep things running the way they are will mean they need to find 87 million from somewhere other than current revenue stream.
Every year the shortfall gets bigger. If this was a corporate enterprise they'd have gone into receivership several years ago. |
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| Superstring |
Why the hate for streetcars?
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_streetcar_system
| quote: | | and four of the TTC's five most heavily travelled surface routes are streetcar routes |
That's right people, 4 out of 5 most used routes are surface-used streetcar routes. Also:
| quote: |
The average daily ridership exceeds 2.46 million passengers: 1,197,000 through bus, 328,700 by streetcar, 35,300 by intermediate rail, and 901,400 by subway. |
So:
Bus: 1.2 mil
Subway: 0.9 mil
Streetcar: 0.3 mil
I'm certain that the extensive subway system costs ALOT more to maintain, while transporting only 3 times more people than streetcars. How about we close the subway first?
Now, onto replacing the streetcars with buses:
1. Imagine the amount of effort to remove all the tracks and put buses everywhere. The amount of money wasted on that would be collosal, and the traffic jams this would cause through the downtown core would be a nightmare.
2. More importantly, imagine replacing all those streetcars with noisy diesel burning buses. There are about 200-300 hundred streetcars running on any given day (from the same article). Imagine 200-300 buses running in the downtown core every day, every 5 minutes during rush hour, spewing diesel fumes out.
But of course, anyone that criticizes the streetcar system probably doesn't USE it, and most likely doesn't even live on a streetcar route.
:mad: |
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| Sentinal |
| quote: | Originally posted by Superstring
Why the hate for streetcars?
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_streetcar_system
That's right people, 4 out of 5 most used routes are surface-used streetcar routes. Also:
So:
Bus: 1.2 mil
Subway: 0.9 mil
Streetcar: 0.3 mil
I'm certain that the extensive subway system costs ALOT more to maintain, while transporting only 3 times more people than streetcars. How about we close the subway first?
Now, onto replacing the streetcars with buses:
1. Imagine the amount of effort to remove all the tracks and put buses everywhere. The amount of money wasted on that would be collosal, and the traffic jams this would cause through the downtown core would be a nightmare.
2. More importantly, imagine replacing all those streetcars with noisy diesel burning buses. There are about 200-300 hundred streetcars running on any given day (from the same article). Imagine 200-300 buses running in the downtown core every day, every 5 minutes during rush hour, spewing diesel fumes out.
But of course, anyone that criticizes the streetcar system probably doesn't USE it, and most likely doesn't even live on a streetcar route.
:mad: |
Just to add to that as well. Each Orion Bus that the TTC uses is approx. $500,000. So buying 20-30 new buses to replace services already offered is a lot of money. BUT. I would really like to know how much the city spends on track repair every year. This is very interesting...... |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by smuncky
It's funny how simple you think things are. |
no one says anything is easy... but its got to be easier for common sense to prevail then the status quo because its coming to a breaking point. Automating the TTC is a no brainer. We dont need years of studies etc. Lets take the octopus system and bring it here. Hell they are a private company... lets just hire them to do it. Period! |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Superstring
Why the hate for streetcars?
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_streetcar_system
That's right people, 4 out of 5 most used routes are surface-used streetcar routes. Also:
So:
Bus: 1.2 mil
Subway: 0.9 mil
Streetcar: 0.3 mil
I'm certain that the extensive subway system costs ALOT more to maintain, while transporting only 3 times more people than streetcars. How about we close the subway first?
Now, onto replacing the streetcars with buses:
1. Imagine the amount of effort to remove all the tracks and put buses everywhere. The amount of money wasted on that would be collosal, and the traffic jams this would cause through the downtown core would be a nightmare.
2. More importantly, imagine replacing all those streetcars with noisy diesel burning buses. There are about 200-300 hundred streetcars running on any given day (from the same article). Imagine 200-300 buses running in the downtown core every day, every 5 minutes during rush hour, spewing diesel fumes out.
But of course, anyone that criticizes the streetcar system probably doesn't USE it, and most likely doesn't even live on a streetcar route.
:mad: |
Slow... inefficient... cumbersome. Track repairs. Oh and the traffic nightmares they create. I wonder how much lost productivity there is because of streetcars? I do use and live near a streetcar. I see the same mess everyday. I also get stuck behind them regularly in my car. I see the issue from both angles.
The fumes from a bus is not much more than the rest of the traffic, trucks etc. A city is a city so dont try me with that arguement!
Besides toronto used to have electric track buses. The dumbest thing they ever did was get rid of them. They were like a streetcar without a track and the bus had mobility.
Bus for now... subway for future. |
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| LightsOut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Get rid of the streetcars
automate the fares
break the union..
Then maybe we can actually afford a subway network like what we should have! |
I'd like to keep the streetcars, I think ridership numbers prove their essential and used extremely frequently...
But I agree that if we find a way to get rid of the union and automate fares, the level of customer satisfaction will skyrocket and the city will save millions upon millions a year, allowing for infrastructure development and investment that will dramatically increase the caliber of public transportation in the city, and in turn, increase ridership. Sounds like a win/win for me, but obviously the union will disagree. |
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| kaniz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Get rid of the streetcars
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uhhhh... wha? If anything, I think we need more dedicated street car lanes, better use of no-left turns to increase flow of traffic in non-dedicated lanes (sucks watching 3 red lights go by because you have a row of cars trying to turn) and more streetcars. |
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| Jayx1 |
| the streetcars are used a lot because there is nothing else. I promise you that people will take the bus or the subway and be happier for it. And they will get there faster as will other traffic. |
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| Superstring |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Slow... inefficient... cumbersome. Track repairs. Oh and the traffic nightmares they create. I wonder how much lost productivity there is because of streetcars? I do use and live near a streetcar. I see the same mess everyday. I also get stuck behind them regularly in my car. I see the issue from both angles.
The fumes from a bus is not much more than the rest of the traffic, trucks etc. A city is a city so dont try me with that arguement!
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Of course I will "try you with that arguement". It's funny you say you live and use the streetcar, and yet get stuck regularly behind them in your car. Guess what, too bad, you would still get stuck behind a bus, Especially if trying to make a right turn. Lost productivity? What about inhaling diesel fumes from 300 buses? How much is that gonna cost in lung/asthma complications? See, not everything is black and white.
The fumes from 300 EXTRA buses WOULD be much worse than regular traffic - it's extra diesel burnt between the high-rises, where it doesn't have a lot of room to dissipate.
I'll explain:
Regular traffic == X amount of fumes.
Regular traffic + 300 buses == X + more diesel in the air
I'm not sure how you draw the conclusion how it would not be "much worse". Do you have a study that proves that? Thought so...
As for the electric bus (FYI, it's called Trolleybus, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybus), yes, great idea, I'm disappointed we don't have those. You would still get stuck behind it, but it would definitely be cheaper to run as there would be no tracks to fix.
The real problem is, of course, has many parts to it:
1. Union-controlled pay (really, Toronto just caves to pretty much all demands)
2. Lack of automation in the system.
3. Single fare to go anywhere
The last point really irks me. To go 5-6 stops on a downtown streetcar or bus costs the same as to come downtown from the Yonge/Steels area. In effect, the downtowners are subsidizing the 905 area transportation. We need a system like they have in Japan - the larger the distance you travel, the more you pay (I believe GO operates on this principle as well) |
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| Jayx1 |
First,
Im sorry to say but a few hundred buses added to a city is not going to make a big difference in pollution. Compare that to 10s of thousands of trucks and hundreds of thousands of cars... possibly millions. Common sense should tell you that 300 buses arent going to impact much on the air. Second. Buses dont block BOTH lanes when they take or alight passengers. They move over and traffic can pass. Third, we had trolly buses which had the capacity to drive on all lanes of a roadway. Better than diesel but still too expensive for now.
As for the 905 arguement. Last i checked, north york, scarborough and etobicoke are all part of toronto. Any TTC service that goes into York Region comes with an added special fare. So i dont see how toronto is subsidizing 905 traffic anymore than if a 416er was to ride the viva bus, which by the way charges the same fare from within the toronto boundaries as it does within york region. The GTA is a whole entity and until we treat it that way we will be stuck in the same inefficient rut. |
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| VERTiG0 |
| these guys and unions |
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