Originally posted by sljiva
I'm aware that most of today's output sounds like a cheap reproduction and sometimes even bastardization of a sound BC established 10 years ago, but some exceptions exist and I (and many others) truly believe that some producers are still capable of interpreting that sound in their own way. I'm mainly talking about Echospace duo and Monolake (who was doing something slightly different, but of the pretty much same style during the 00's) here.
This doesn't really hold water to me, as Monolake departed from Chain Reaction in the late 90s to distance themselves from the Berlin dub techno blueprint that the label was getting increasingly famous for. Their subsequent albums are evidence of this, eskewing the low frequencies, background hiss and reverb for bone dry minimalism and ambience instead. This is also when Robert Henke started focusing more on his solo ambient works.
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It's definitely deeper, denser, more atmospheric and layered, with some unique samples and effects such as that electrostatic noise which adds to the whole "I'm floating through thick grey clouds filled with rumble and bolts" feel. It's very image-inducing in general. Try to find a track in a BC catalogue that sounds similar to Aequinoxium or Ocean Of Emptiness and post it here please.
I'm aware that dub techno can only vary so much and that it's in its essence a pretty "limited" subgenre
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The Coldest Season, while on the surface does sound like a BC imitation, has a lot more qualities when you look beyond that first impression, and does sound different (at least so much as the style allows)
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If you want to call it a BC ripoff, it's the best damn ripoff imaginable.
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Not a single album came so close to the original dub techno (although ambient is a better label for this album) sound, and considering that fact alone this release deserves a place in the "best of 00's" lists.
This pretty much highlights my point. You're not exactly arguing a very compelling case when you constantly have to sell the genre short and make excuses for lacking innovation.
The problem is that you and others still think BC IS dub techno, and that they have permanently set the boundaries for what can be considered dub techno and what can not. You're thinking inside the box that they defined, without considering the possibility of taking dub techno beyond these parameters, freeing it from this blueprint to actually create something fresh. This mindset is exactly what holds the genre down creatively. That is why The Coldest Season does not deserve a spot among this decade's greatest albums.
couch-potato
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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Gui Boratto - Chromophobia
Would have lived an entire lifetime without ever hearing this. :D
Adding some of these other albums to my Christmas list no doubt...
TranceArmstrong
Jeff Mills - Gamma Player v1 - The Universe By Night
SYSTEM-J
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Originally posted by Sand Leaper
You're thinking inside the box that they defined, without considering the possibility of taking dub techno beyond these parameters, freeing it from this blueprint to actually create something fresh. This mindset is exactly what holds the genre down creatively. That is why The Coldest Season does not deserve a spot among this decade's greatest albums.
I appreciate this debate started because of a claim made about freshness and innovation, but I think too much is sometimes made of the need for everything to be different and new. If this album is stunningly good, better than almost any other album you'll hear this decade then it deserves to be on the list. Good music isn't simply a case of endless change and innovation, it's about the quality of writing and production. This Echospace album might contain no generic element that hasn't been seen before, but if it stirs your soul from start to finish then what the does it matter?
corjay9
Justice - Cross
Daft Punk - Discovery
Modeselektor - Happy Birthday!
Aphex Twin - Drukqs
Bassnectar - Underground Communication
Squarepusher - Hello Everything
Mindscape - Black Lotus
Benga - Diaries of an Afro Warrior
Skream - Skream!
Amon Tobin - Out of Nowhere
David Torn - Splattercell
Simian Mobile Disco - Attack Decay Sustain Release
Sebastian Tellier - Sexuality
This list is all over the place, dubstep, IDM, electro, dnb, but all are classics IMO.
Sand Leaper
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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I appreciate this debate started because of a claim made about freshness and innovation, but I think too much is sometimes made of the need for everything to be different and new. If this album is stunningly good, better than almost any other album you'll hear this decade then it deserves to be on the list. Good music isn't simply a case of endless change and innovation, it's about the quality of writing and production. This Echospace album might contain no generic element that hasn't been seen before, but if it stirs your soul from start to finish then what the does it matter?
It's not really about the need for things to be different or new all the time. "Loudboxer" by Speedy J, for instance, is one of my favourite albums, yet it does not do anything that Speedy hadn't already done earlier on releases like A Shocking Hobby.
However, seeing as this is a list of best albums released this decade, I think that there are other albums released in this decade that deserve a spot on this list a lot more than an album that is so painstakingly following a tried and tested formula.
I know a lot of people who think that Brogden is nowhere near as good a producer and writer as Giussani, but personally I love them both. I doubt many people have heard Essence, but I think it's one of the best albums of the decade.
Stanza
Dousk - D.I.Y
Hiroshi Watanabe - Genesis
16B - How to Live 100 Years
Planisphere - Lektrophony
Plastic Boy - It's a Plastic Life
Mirco De Govia - Chronoscale
Futureshock - Phantom Theory
Circulation - Colours
The Timewriter - Soulstickers
Chris Nemmo - Forbidden Paths
Our House - Our House is Your House (one of the most underrated prog house artist album ever)
The Digital Blonde - Synthology
The Beetseekers - Out of the Blue Moon
WirelessEyes
BT - This Binary Universe
sljiva
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Originally posted by Sand Leaper
It's not really about the need for things to be different or new all the time. "Loudboxer" by Speedy J, for instance, is one of my favourite albums, yet it does not do anything that Speedy hadn't already done earlier on releases like A Shocking Hobby.
However, seeing as this is a list of best albums released this decade, I think that there are other albums released in this decade that deserve a spot on this list a lot more than an album that is so painstakingly following a tried and tested formula.
You obviously have an unexplainable (at least to me) animosity towards The Coldest Season, seeing how you singled it out of from the bunch under the accusation of unoriginality, completely ignoring the fact that most of electronic music is this way, and that in terms of innovation there are only a handful of acts out there truly leading and everyone else is just following. I have no problem with the latter, as long as the artist is trying to improve the sound of its predecessor, and Echospace definitely did that. I really can't see how you can compare Radiance to Aequinoxium without noticing the difference. Brikha's Deeparture In Time will (rightfully) appear on many "best of 00's" lists, although it virtually doesn't offer anything groundbreaking and it was released around 10 years after the finest Detroit techno has been made. Yagya is hailed as a mastermind these days, yet his sound doesn't differ alot from the sound Wolfgang Voigt created on his first Gas album in the mid 90's. There are a lot of examples and this thread is a perfect proof. I mean, look at the albums mentioned the most here: The Binary Universe or I Choose Noise. By your standards, more than 90% of albums mentioned here doesn't deserve a spot in the list, yet you attacked just The Coldest Season.
Sand Leaper
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Originally posted by sljiva
You obviously have an unexplainable (at least to me) animosity towards The Coldest Season, seeing how you singled it out of from the bunch under the accusation of unoriginality, completely ignoring the fact that most of electronic music is this way, and that in terms of innovation there are only a handful of acts out there truly leading and everyone else is just following.
I mean, look at the albums mentioned the most here: The Binary Universe or I Choose Noise. By your standards, more than 90% of albums mentioned here doesn't deserve a spot in the list, yet you attacked just The Coldest Season.
Well of course. I'm sure there are many other albums in this thread that deserve the same kind of criticism as well. I just happened to choose The Coldest Season because I've actually heard it, and because it exemplifies the crippling creativity issues of the genre it represents.
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I have no problem with the latter, as long as the artist is trying to improve the sound of its predecessor, and Echospace definitely did that. I really can't see how you can compare Radiance to Aequinoxium without noticing the difference. Brikha's Deeparture In Time will (rightfully) appear on many "best of 00's" lists, although it virtually doesn't offer anything groundbreaking and it was released around 10 years after the finest Detroit techno has been made. Yagya is hailed as a mastermind these days, yet his sound doesn't differ alot from the sound Wolfgang Voigt created on his first Gas album in the mid 90's.
Yes, it was a pleasant enough record that polishes up the BC era nicely. In my book, however, that isn't enough to earn a spot among the best albums of the decade when the actual foundations and structures were already so thoroughly explored and pioneered almost a decade ago, and that this fact is so blatantly obvious (as the videos I posted clearly demonstrate).
I haven't heard Deeparture In Time or any of Yagya's albums, but if they follow established and thoroughly pioneered formulas as painstakingly and obviously as Echospace did on The Coldest Season, I'd be just as critical towards them, too. As I already said, it's not about always having to sound different or innovative, but at some point, you have to draw the line.
Gauss
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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
How could I forget...
