Originally posted by Spam
The point is, the story is bollocks.
What point, exactly, are you arguing?
I'm arguing that "what happened to the animals that couldn't make it," is a ridiculously stupid argument, if God guided all occurrences than all is explained with simply "God oversaw and took care of everything." It obviously didn't happen because there are billions of arguments that deem it completely impossible. How idiotic is it to give it the smallest credibility with the weakest of those billions of arguments such as the one quoted?
I'm arguing that hardcore atheists, not assuming pkcRAISTLIN is one by any means, get all bent up when something like this springs up as if it somehow it could be a threat to their beliefs of years. I don't understand why one would even try to present an argument against it at this point, and honestly speaking, it annoys me a bit. If someone said they found what could have been remains of an elf that worked for Santa Claus, would you question how impossible the theory of Santa flying to every home in the world in one night all over again? No. Why? Because that would be stupid.
MrJiveBoJingles
Well, there are certain apologists who will try to explain the Biblical stories using a minimum of "And then a miracle happened!" reasoning. I think the practical criticisms are a response to that line of argument.
tachobg
quote:
Originally posted by woscar
:stongue: excellent
pkcRAISTLIN
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Originally posted by wotyzoid
It is obviously assumed so. If you disagree than you are ignorant to the reasonings I have heard.
haha, “reasonings”. When words cease to have any meaning…
they can use whatever “reasonings” they want. From my best recollection, there is no mention of it being a magical ark. It was built by noah, maybe a son or two and other “good” people god was going to spare. If it was a magic ark, why the didn’t god build it himself?
quote:
Originally posted by wotyzoid
That's great. What's your point? Do you believe it?
My first point was that I am completely “cool” and im not sure exactly why you thought I was not. I would’ve thought over the last several years on TA, most people could tell via my vitriol when I had lost my cool. Secondly, I thought it a little strange to label the desert gods’ manstras as “just stories”, because those benign stories have a long and proud histories of ing the world. They’re no more “just stories” than oxygen is “just an element”.
quote:
Originally posted by wotyzoid
I'm arguing that hardcore atheists, not assuming pkcRAISTLIN is one by any means, get all bent up when something like this springs up as if it somehow it could be a threat to their beliefs of years. I don't understand why one would even try to present an argument against it at this point, and honestly speaking, it annoys me a bit. If someone said they found what could have been remains of an elf that worked for Santa Claus, would you question how impossible the theory of Santa flying to every home in the world in one night all over again? No. Why? Because that would be stupid.
I might indeed be a hardcore atheist, but I am certainly not “bent out of shape” about anything. Nobody here has claimed that the ark is real, or that the OP is indeed THE ark. That’s the only thing that would get me going. Additionally, I have absolutely no need for my atheism in the face of substantiated evidence. I would actually find it rather wonderful if tomorrow, god sent me a burning bush and made me the boss of everyone in Australia. my lack of belief is completely immaterial to me.
Oh, and people don’t bother responding about santa’s existence because a) we know 100% he doesn’t, and b) nobody ever killed/oppressed/marginalised anyone over the colour of rudolf’s nose.
wotyzoid
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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Well, there are certain apologists who will try to explain the Biblical stories using a minimum of "And then a miracle happened!" reasoning. I think the practical criticisms are a response to that line of argument.
Yet we haven't seen that line of argument by any apologists in here, why would someone jump straight to "practical criticism"? It comes across as really thick (ironically enough) and paranoid behavior to me, not to mention irritatingly incoherent to the conversation.
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by wotyzoid
Yet we haven't seen that line of argument by any apologists in here, why would someone jump straight to "practical criticism"? It comes across as really thick (ironically enough) and paranoid behavior to me, not to mention irritatingly incoherent to the conversation.
I must have missed the stage where you turned into a massive wit. Or have you always been this way and it flew under the radar? Hang on, are you the dude whose dad is a 911 nutjob? The apple has not fallen far…
In any case, in your boundless arrogant ignorance, you seemed to be making woeful inferences from some very basic information. i do not happen to think that “what about kangaroos?” is somehow the crème de la crème of anti-ark logic. Its merely something I find interesting and have never seen an explanation from the biblical literalists.
So you, you stupid .
wotyzoid
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
If it was a magic ark, why the didn’t god build it himself?
This is my problem with your post in the first place. If you know it's not true, then why are you questioning it to begin with? It's futile, get over it.
quote:
My first point was that I am completely “cool” and im not sure exactly why you thought I was not. I would’ve thought over the last several years on TA, most people could tell via my vitriol when I had lost my cool. Secondly, I thought it a little strange to label the desert gods’ manstras as “just stories”, because those benign stories have a long and proud histories of ing the world. They’re no more “just stories” than oxygen is “just an element”.
I might indeed be a hardcore atheist, but I am certainly not “bent out of shape” about anything. Nobody here has claimed that the ark is real, or that the OP is indeed THE ark. That’s the only thing that would get me going. Additionally, I have absolutely no need for my atheism in the face of substantiated evidence. I would actually find it rather wonderful if tomorrow, god sent me a burning bush and made me the boss of everyone in Australia. my lack of belief is completely immaterial to me.
Oh, and people don’t bother responding about santa’s existence because a) we know 100% he doesn’t, and b) nobody ever killed/oppressed/marginalised anyone over the colour of rudolf’s nose.
I apologize for assuming you were worked up.
It seems to me that your gripe is not with the story itself, or the bible. Now I will say that it may be with religion as a whole, which is something we will never agree on because I don't blame IT for all of these happenings you mentioned as much as the people responsible for them. But I will say that, if that is really how you feel and that you are questioning weather the ark was magical or not, you are questioning the wrong things. Are you in some sort of quest to prove all that the bible represents wrong? It will never happen, my friend, and it is about as possible as the idea of the ark.
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
I must have missed the stage where you turned into a massive wit. Or have you always been this way and it flew under the radar? Hang on, are you the dude whose dad is a 911 nutjob? The apple has not fallen far…
In any case, in your boundless arrogant ignorance, you seemed to be making woeful inferences from some very basic information. i do not happen to think that “what about kangaroos?” is somehow the crème de la crème of anti-ark logic. Its merely something I find interesting and have never seen an explanation from the biblical literalists.
So you, you stupid .
Wow.
edit: This would have sufficed, by the way: " Its merely something I find interesting and have never seen an explanation from the biblical literalists. "
pkcRAISTLIN
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Originally posted by wotyzoid
This is my problem with your post in the first place. If you know it's not true, then why are you questioning it to begin with?
So what you’re saying is we should just let fallacious facts to go unchallenged. Imagine how many new and wonderful religions we could create with an attitude like that!
quote:
Originally posted by wotyzoid
It seems to me that your gripe is not with the story itself, or the bible. Now I will say that it may be with religion as a whole, which is something we will never agree on because I don't blame IT for all of these happenings you mentioned as much as the people responsible for them. But I will say that, if that is really how you feel and that you are questioning weather the ark was magical or not, you are questioning the wrong things. Are you in some sort of quest to prove all that the bible represents wrong? It will never happen, my friend, and it is about as possible as the idea of the ark.
No quest at all. Just a discussion with TAs. I was merely pointing out that you can’t use “magic” to suspend your (dis)belief when in fact the bible makes no reference to that ark (as opposed to the ark of the covenant, which thanks to dr jones, we all know had magical face-melting properties) being made of god.
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Originally posted by wotyzoid
Wow.
at least now you know the difference between discussion and riled up :)
Lira
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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
So what you’re saying is we should just let fallacious facts to go unchallenged. Imagine how many new and wonderful religions we could create with an attitude like that!
Unlike the current ones that already exist? The kid's got a point here, Paul. Besides, no criticism ever stopped a religion.
wotyzoid
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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
So what you’re saying is we should just let fallacious facts to go unchallenged. Imagine how many new and wonderful religions we could create with an attitude like that!
It's honestly something I'm in no way concerned about. What other people believe and cease to believe matters very little to me as I am fully capable of respecting all and I'm not out to convert anyone. All I can claim to care about is that people are exposed to as many ideas as possible and come up with their own solutions/opinions/ideas/etc, creed included.
quote:
No quest at all. Just a discussion with TAs. I was merely pointing out that you can’t use “magic” to suspend your (dis)belief when in fact the bible makes no reference to that ark (as opposed to the ark of the covenant, which thanks to dr jones, we all know had magical face-melting properties) being made of god.
Well I haven't read the passage in ages, so I can't confirm or deny your claim. But assuming you are right, yes it also mildly interests me to know what a capable believer would have to say about it.
quote:
at least now you know the difference between discussion and riled up :)
And it's a pity because in no way did I mean to instigate.
pkcRAISTLIN
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Originally posted by Lira
Unlike the current ones that already exist?
I wasn’t implying that opposition could somehow alter the fabric of time. but, since you raised it, i’ll bet allah’s left nut that scientology has a much harder time because everyone says/thinks its bull. Who knows what would happen if stupid ideas are left unchallenged for a few thousand years. oh that’s right, we already know what happens.
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
The kid's got a point here, Paul. Besides, no criticism ever stopped a religion.
I can’t believe a philosopher would say something like this. What exactly was the enlightenment then if not a vehicle for stopping religion’s meddlings in the public sphere? Why is there much weaker theistic belief in the western world than at any time in history? Criticism of the antiquated and illogical positions of the pointy end of organised religion’s main men have helped engender a marked shift in belief patterns worldwide. Religion, like any idea, is impossible to stop. But just because some cunt will continue to be a cunt regardless of what I do, is not reason enough to stop me calling them a cunt.
These people are allowed to believe in magical boats but for some reason its not ok for me to call them a cunt? that, and them. And given your anti-abortion stance, you too :p
pkcRAISTLIN
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Originally posted by wotyzoid
It's honestly something I'm in no way concerned about. What other people believe and cease to believe matters very little to me
Yeah, remember that when people are flying planes into your buildings, de-railing trains, killing doctors, altering education standards, and just generally bouncing their moralistic bollocks on your chin.
