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OK, so who's your favorite all-time producer? (pg. 14)
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| RapidFire |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
What you're arguing is entirely subjective and beside the point. I don't think MiSL is "second only to ESCM" in BT's discography. I think it's an uneven collection of genre experiments the beginning of his decline. Furthermore I think Ima and TBU, which had no co-producers at all, were by far his best albums. Also, MiSL is not considered a classic of dance music except by a few trancecrackers. Honestly, how many respected DJs or music journalists would call MiSL a classic? And for what it's worth, I consider some early Sasha material which has been proven to be made by Tom Frederikse, such as the Qat tracks and Magic, to be better than almost any of the pap he's put out in the last five years
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considering MISL contains some of his most career defining moments, as well as the genre's, the argument can be made that is in fact a classic. I don't think you'd find much opposition regarding that.
the qat traks are solid but they didn't really stand the test of time like his other stuff but as you said, that's entirely subjective. I do enjoy most of the productions but there's a huge gap in quality.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
This is not an argument about whether co-producers are good or whether co-producers improve a track. It's about whether Sasha has any of the skill or ability to deserve being called a top producer, and providing logical cases and evidence to support that. You're doing nothing of the sort. Again and again, you're letting the fact you like a piece of music overwhelm objective consideration. Let's reiterate some known facts.
1. Until 1996 Sasha definitely not produce any of his own music. He has been called a "yes man" in the studio in that time by collaborators and has admitted himself he didn't know anything.
2. As recently as 2004 Sasha was still saying he'd only just sat down and learned how to use everything in the studio, despite giving the same speech years previously.
3. Even in the last year or two there were tracks released under Sasha's name that had no input from him whatsoever. In fact, all the emFire material was going to have been released under the collective alias "Coma" but that was scrapped because Sasha's name is more profitable.
4. Sasha repeatedly delayed his artist album, taking a whole decade to actually sit down and make it, admitting several times he'd started it but hadn't had any time to work on production.
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1. show me the article that says he didn't produce anything himself.
2. does learning everything and having the standard know-how to produce go hand in hand? I don't think so. that can be construed as not having an absolute technical mastery of the studio which many producers still don't have. doesn't stop them from creating good music.
3. yes the tracks which had no input from him have been stated as such. Coma, Who Killed Sparky and Park It In The Shade however are all co-productions. a fact which, once again, does not take away from Sasha's input.
4. meanwhile he was releasing other works. just because he didn't have time to work on his artist album doesn't mean he didn't have time to produce anything at all.
if he truly isn't as involved then why not get Charlie May, Tom Holkenborg, etc to just produce the album for him while he's out working on his DJing. why wait so long? none would be the wiser. clearly he's heavily involved otherwise that album would not have been delayed...
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
All of this paints the picture of a professional, full-time DJ who has wanted to make cutting edge records throughout his career but not had the time or expertise to become proficient enough, an artist who is known to have been credited on productions he did no producing on, productions that were released 15+ years apart at opposite ends of his career.
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the productions he didn't do which were credited to the Sasha moniker have all been released and are common knowledge. you can't claim that the rest of the stuff isn't made by him. why would he single out telling the world about certain productions and not others?
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Comparisons to BT are false and baseless because BT has not relied on co-producers throughout his career, BT is not a full-time DJ, BT has not been proven to have released records he did no work on, and BT has never had any trouble cranking out regular productions. BT has had several videos and interviews where he's shown people around his studio, BT has written his own plug-ins and programmes and BT plays his own music live. All compelling proof that BT can in fact produce to a high standard without an help at all. By contrast, what's your proof of Sasha's sole, singular, un-aided production abilities? 20 minutes of music made fourteen years ago. Not enough to declare someone a great producer. |
of course i'm not saying that BT can't produce by himself. that would we be ludicrous. he's made tons of stuff on his own. I'm just saying that his best works were usually collaborations.
I have no proof other than what I've read in interviews and liner notes and the same goes for you.
| quote: | Originally posted by RebeL9
Just a small note. Godspeed is produced by BT himself. Not a coproduction. |
my mistake. Godspeed was one of the few classic productions that he did write himself. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by RapidFire
1. show me the article that says he didn't produce anything himself.
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These are both quotes from old issues of DJ Times (different interviews):
| quote: | DJ TIMES: When you started out, you knew nothing about the studio...
SASHA: (laughs) I knew nothing! That whole time when I was producing remixes I would just show up to the studio with a box of records with my latest tunes and we'd sample the out of them. I could play keyboards, so I'd do that, and I'd do the arrangements on the desk, but in terms of the technology, I had no understanding of it, because I didn't have any of my own gear and we were always under the pressure of time being in a big studio, so there was never time for me to sit down and take half a day to learn how a particular keyboard worked. |
| quote: | | RICHARD DEKKARD: 7PM needed somebody to teach Sasha how to get around in the studio because DeConstruction wanted to get started on Sasha's album, and 7PM knew that because Sasha was a DJ, he didn't know the first thing about production -- all the work that had been done previously was all Tom Fredrikse, and Sasha was pretty much the 'yes' man in the studio. |
Everything up to 1996 was produced by these two guys, and you can hear it very clearly. Although I'm not saying that Sasha is a hack here. There's no question of Charlie May and Junkie XL making an album while he wasn't there. You listen to Airdrawndagger and you can hear it's heavily inspired by a lot of Sasha's favourite records - it sounds exactly like Sasha took a box of those records into the studio, played the bits he wanted and they recreated them. I definitely believe he has that kind of grand conceptual control, and I'll even believe he writes a lot of it. But I don't believe he's a brilliant producer, which is what this thread is about. I'm sick of people using the word as a catch-all for "artist". |
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| RapidFire |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
These are both quotes from old issues of DJ Times (different interviews):
Everything up to 1996 was produced by these two guys, and you can hear it very clearly. Although I'm not saying that Sasha is a hack here. There's no question of Charlie May and Junkie XL making an album while he wasn't there. You listen to Airdrawndagger and you can hear it's heavily inspired by a lot of Sasha's favourite records - it sounds exactly like Sasha took a box of those records into the studio, played the bits he wanted and they recreated them. I definitely believe he has that kind of grand conceptual control, and I'll even believe he writes a lot of it. But I don't believe he's a brilliant producer, which is what this thread is about. I'm sick of people using the word as a catch-all for "artist". |
fair enough I wont dispute his lack of involvment in the earlier years, thats concrete proof. it still doesnt account for his entire career, however, and as I said I find myself more drawn to the later productions than anything else. the entire sasha sound (from productions to remixes) is what I consider the top echelon of edm. wether its just Alex or him and his team, I'm a fan of those productions and the creative forces behind them. so lets leave it at that. |
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| QWERTY13 |
Charlie May.
He's brilliant as part of Spooky and as Sasha's co-producer/ producer. |
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| QWERTY13 |
| quote: | Originally posted by RapidFire
fair enough I wont dispute his lack of involvment in the earlier years, thats concrete proof. it still doesnt account for his entire career, however, and as I said I find myself more drawn to the later productions than anything else. the entire sasha sound (from productions to remixes) is what I consider the top echelon of edm. wether its just Alex or him and his team, I'm a fan of those productions and the creative forces behind them. so lets leave it at that. |
I think a good indication of the extent to which Alex was inspired by Charlie (or Spooky for that matter) is obvious in Xpander which is based on a Spooky track and actually samples the main melody from Little Bullet (live version). |
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| identity7 |
I'd say
Oliver Lieb, Ralf Hildenbeutel, Steffen Britzke, Beaumont Hannant, Cari Lekebusch, Autechre, Harald Bluchel
Are the ones that especially stand out for me. I'm talking about their '92-96 stuff of course. Except for Lieb which was keeping it real up until 2005 (and maybe 2007 if you'll count the Unreleased Album)
So that's it |
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| Vernon Wanderer |
Steffen Britzke (Stevie Be-Zet) holds a no.1 for me..
Then the rest of the Eye Q crew(Ralf Hildenbeutel, A.C. Boutsen, Vath in his Eye Q era..)
Oliver Lieb, Simon Berry... many moar, but you get what I mean. |
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| RapidFire |
| quote: | Originally posted by QWERTY13
I think a good indication of the extent to which Alex was inspired by Charlie (or Spooky for that matter) is obvious in Xpander which is based on a Spooky track and actually samples the main melody from Little Bullet (live version). |
yeah. charlie co-produced the track with him. |
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| LinX |
| Andy Moor's productions are hot. |
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| Emvy |
| dennis waakop reijers really knows his ! |
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| Fledz |
Steve Helstrip, though I'm quite disappointed by recent productions.
They don't come close to the likes of Affinity, Synaesthesia and Circa Forever. |
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| Lolo |
| quote: | Originally posted by AY STAR
i wouldnt be suprised lol
back in the day airwave and m.i.k.e. used to ghost write for alottttt of people ;) |
not that many |
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