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Insomniac sues Los Angelas City (pg. 7)
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| trancension |
| quote: | Originally posted by Apeattack
You are missing the point. I am not referring to the money top athletes make from playing their sport (Kobe getting a check from the Lakers), I am talking about the money top athletes get from businesses for only lending their name and 'showing up.' How much 'work' did Kobe do in making his Nike shoe? Probably very little, but he got paid a lot.
The quality of a DJ is not proportional to the amount of money a promoter pays to him/her, yet many people think it should be this way. A $100k performance by Armin, Tiesto, etc... will not be 10x better than a performance by a competant DJ getting paid $10k. It is all about name recognition. |
As I already said, they don't get paid anything for helping to make their shoe. They get money for advertising the shoe. You don't understand how endorsements work or something?
Kobe is getting paid $20mill a year by Nike (or however much) to go out there and score 30 ppg, 5apg, 5rpg and win a championship...while wearing his Kobe Nike shoes and Nike socks and his Nike whatever and while drinking Gatorade on the sideline. He didn't get paid for his creative input, he's getting paid to wear the stuff while he plays basketball. So yes, he's getting paid to do his 30/5/5. LeBron is getting paid for his 29/7/6. That's it. Not because the amount of work they put into the product's creation. They get paid on making the product sell. |
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| Apeattack |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancension
As I already said, they don't get paid anything for helping to make their shoe. They get money for advertising the shoe. You don't understand how endorsements work or something?
Kobe is getting paid $20mill a year by Nike (or however much) to go out there and score 30 ppg, 5apg, 5rpg and win a championship...while wearing his Kobe Nike shoes and Nike socks and his Nike whatever and while drinking Gatorade on the sideline. He didn't get paid for his creative input, he's getting paid to wear the stuff while he plays basketball. So yes, he's getting paid to do his 30/5/5. LeBron is getting paid for his 29/7/6. That's it. Not because the amount of work they put into the product's creation. They get paid on making the product sell. |
It is all about perspective. Neither of us is right or wrong.
We both agree that for Kobe, his main job is playing basketball and he receives large endorsements for performing at a very high level. As you know, with many star athletes the endorsement deals often are much greater than their salary for playing the sport. These athletes can be average promoters for a product and still will make a lot of money.
If you think Tiesto's main job is DJing, then what you say is correct - He is getting paid large sums of money for doing an average job (let's say for the sake of argument that he is 'average'), which doesn't 'feel' right.
However, if you think Tiesto's main job is producing he is quite prolific and has had a lot of success (let's ignore for now the accusations that he doesn't do much actual producing... the bottom line is that he is perceived as being very talented by most non-TA folk). The DJing gigs are like endorsement deals. A company (Insomniac) will pay a lot of money to have Tiesto's name associated with their product. Tiesto doesn't have to do that great of job because MOST people come to a big event for the atmosphere and high production values.
On a side note, I realize that many here dislike Tiesto because he allegedly doesn't do a lot of producing himself and premixes parts of his sets, but none of that matters from a promoter's perspective. If Tiesto is perceived as being great by 90% of the people, and getting him to perform at your event will increase attendance substantially, then the promoter would be a fool to not try to hire him. TA gives us a very skewed view of the EDM scene... most people at clubs and festivals only are casual followers of EDM. Name recognition matters most. |
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| djkatmaus |
$250.000 does seem like a lot of money, but you have to consider how much money Tiesto has to pay out to his production staff that tours with him.
As for pre-recorded mixes? I doubt it, but it wouldn't surprise me. Everyone including bands do this. Our company provides all the audio systems for Coachella, and I didn't see any evidence of this at the mix. Maybe on his side, but like I said it wouldn't surprise me. |
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| Apeattack |
| quote: | Originally posted by djkatmaus
As for pre-recorded mixes? I doubt it, but it wouldn't surprise me. Everyone including bands do this. Our company provides all the audio systems for Coachella, and I didn't see any evidence of this at the mix. Maybe on his side, but like I said it wouldn't surprise me. |
Playing Devil's Advocate... I'm just throwing some ideas out there.
How bad is premixing? If the audience does not know Tiesto is premixing some songs and the premixed transitions/mashups sound good, does it really matter? A DJ can do a lot of creative and interesting things if they premix that would be too difficult and/or too risky to do live.
If beat-matching is a trivial task for Tiesto (Sandscat lolers), then wouldn't it make sense for him to premix parts of his set which would (1) allow him to make perfect and creative transitions/mashups and (2) free him to do other things like interact with the crowd or play with effects? This is why I think using the sync button on Traktor is perfectly fine (which often does not sync two songs perfectly, but it gets the songs pretty close), although many on TA think it is blasphemy. Most people go to Tiesto events to hear EDM songs and feel the energy of the DJ and crowd, not to hear Tiesto beat-match. If premixing can enhance the crowd's experience (assuming the crowd does not know and/or care about the premixing), shouldn't it be ok to do so? |
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| able.h |
| quote: | Originally posted by Apeattack
Most people go to Tiesto events to hear EDM songs and feel the energy of the DJ and crowd, not to hear Tiesto beat-match. |
Well what I can say from my experience watching Tiesto Kaleidoscope Tour at Cow Palace last November, he f***ed up so bad twice trying to beatmatch the songs... I could hear at least 20 seconds of double bass when changing between the songs, can anyone else confirm on this? It was toward the end of his set, probably the last hour.
Not that I'm trying to defend Tiesto against pre-mixing, but that shows at least he was still trying to DJ a live set (or at least the last hour of his show) |
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| DaveT |
| I think this case is going to be VERY important because unless they work with AEG to do it at Staples Center, where will Armin Only be in LA. |
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| system-7 |
Insomniac should just book these artists here at the Lancaster fairgrounds, plenty of room. Heck they hosted Rally and Drift racing competitions here, as well as a fair. I'm sure the city would like the money made and its not too far from LA. Just an idea.
| quote: | Originally posted by DaveT
I think this case is going to be VERY important because unless they work with AEG to do it at Staples Center, where will Armin Only be in LA. |
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| Apeattack |
| quote: | Originally posted by system-7
Insomniac should just book these artists here at the Lancaster fairgrounds, plenty of room. Heck they hosted Rally and Drift racing competitions here, as well as a fair. I'm sure the city would like the money made and its not too far from LA. Just an idea. |
If the Lancaster fairgrounds is outdoor, promoters might not want to risk holding an outdoor event during the rainy season. |
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| djkatmaus |
I saw his show at the Shrine last November. Killer DJ set. There was one point towards the end where it started trainwrecking in the transition. But he managed to get it back. I know that was him Djing. Not something pre-recorded.
As an engineer, I understand why some artists chose to premix or pre-record some there stuff. Most of the time it's cost effective. If it took five keyboards to create one song. Surely they're gonna sample some stuff and program it, so then you only need to carry one keyboard on tour. |
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| j_moua |
| IMO, Tiesto's all in for the money now. I think he knows that there's people that will still think he is playing a bad ass set or something when he's not. Some people might be saying that he's all commercial or whatever now but, when he really wants to, he can still make people remember how he USED TO BE. Why he was the number one DJ before. BUT, like I said, that's just what I think of it. |
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| Quazar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Apeattack
This is why I think using the sync button on Traktor is perfectly fine (which often does not sync two songs perfectly, but it gets the songs pretty close), although many on TA think it is blasphemy. |
I know it's a bit off topic, but using the sync button is a little different than pre-mixing, right?
I'm all for syncing tracks. Matching the beat is trivial. It doesn't make you look more talented, because the whole point of being a DJ is to string songs together in a compelling way. You have to know what songs sound good played after one another, and beatmatching isn't going to magically give you a great ear for music.
That said, another thing a good DJ does is feel the crowd. Changing his or her set on the fly to better fit the energy level of the audience. Syncing tracks doesn't hinder this, but having 5 songs pre-mixed could cause the DJ to play a specifically planned set no matter what the crowd is doing.
I'm not saying Tiesto pre-mixes, because the one video that was posted doesn't look like him loading a CD, it looks like him checking a setlist. If he does, he better have a good reason for it. The man is from the vinyl era, he should be able to mix blindfolded at this point.
And yeah, it seems like these days "Tiesto" is more of a brand than a DJ. |
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| djkatmaus |
It will be interesting to see how this lawsuit plays out. I think Insomniac may have the upper hand. If you consider the fact, that the Chemical Brothers just played at the Hollywood bowl the other day. I know it's slightly different but could be used as ammo for Insomniac's case. I also read online that there looking into using the riots after the Laker's won.
I hope they do win. Why should EDM get singled out. Every genre of music has their fair share of problems. Look at the rap shows? I see far more fighting, and violence at those shows then all other shows combined. |
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