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Riots and Anti-Government Protests in Egypt (pg. 9)
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sly_Guy
oh, we all knew that, but seeing as Egypt is a sovereign nation of which I am not a part, I will be respectful and not offer an opinion on what should happen and only support the Egyptian majority in whatever direction they choose to take their land.
What I am finding interesting in this story and countless others springing up in the last few weeks is the role that the internet is beginning to play. Between wikileaks, our CRTC scandal, Egyptian uprisings, the internet is fast replacing traditional media, as well as becoming a conduit for bringing people together for all kinds of causes, and it's nice to see it (at least for the time being) creating change. |
I disagree. Everything is interconnected. We have as much right to be concerned about a volatile part of the world as anyone else. Also, These kinds of places have no problem telling us to worry about their cause when they have their hand out. |
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| Endlesswave |
| Religion and state should be SEPERATE. Those that went through the French Revolution and had those ideas (as far as know it started there) had it RIGHT. |
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| Sly_Guy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
I disagree. Everything is interconnected. We have as much right to be concerned about a volatile part of the world as anyone else. Also, These kinds of places have no problem telling us to worry about their cause when they have their hand out. |
concerned yes, dictate the outcome, no. And saying that 'they wouldn't have a problem doing the same to us' is no excuse for muddling in someone else's affairs, nor does it make it right. If you ever want to fix those ills, you've gotta practice what you preach, and I for one believe the time of puppet regimes and foreign interests are minimized in this world. Putting your hands in the pot will only dirty them down the line. Think Star Trek and the prime directive, we need a little more of that. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sly_Guy
concerned yes, dictate the outcome, no. And saying that 'they wouldn't have a problem doing the same to us' is no excuse for muddling in someone else's affairs, nor does it make it right. If you ever want to fix those ills, you've gotta practice what you preach, and I for one believe the time of puppet regimes and foreign interests are minimized in this world. Putting your hands in the pot will only dirty them down the line. Think Star Trek and the prime directive, we need a little more of that. |
We saw the result of a weak US president with Iran. And we will see the same this time around. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
the point is that the people who are leading this are not looking for democracy. Quite the contrary.
Id rather have mubarek in than some theocratical lunatic. |
Who are leading it? I don't think you know how secular egypt is and how it has been, for the past 60 years or so, the lead arab country in westernization. Mubarak did a good job to quell the islamists back in 1981 after the sadat assassination and egypt has grown exponentially westernized since then. The religious are moderates for the majority and the rest are secular, atheists, christians and jews. Just looking at how organized the protests were and how peaceful they were overall (besides the police entising and inciting violence on the people, and perhaps letting prisoners out) one can see that this isn`t a people who will be easily swayed by islamist propaganda.
It`s the students that are leading this, the business man, the shop keeper, the professors etc. The ones who have been under the iron fist of mubarak for the past 30 odd years. Why deny them democracy? Don't you think this will help to better stability in the middle east? A direction for other arab countries to follow suite? Reduce hostility with israel?
I honestly doubt the muslim brotherhood would take power. You can see the protestors, hear them out, see what they preach. Egypt will never turn to be an islamic state.
To deny egypt a democracy would be the equivalent of overlooking attrocaties such as black slavery and the genocide of jews. The people have been oppressed of their freedoms for a majority of mubarak's rule. Let them at least have their freedom of speech and free will to determine their government. |
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| -g- |
no man, he's totally right.
i mean, just consider all the evidence and stuff he's sited to support what he's saying.
and if you don't believe it, you're just plain wrong. just ask him. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
We saw the result of a weak US president with Iran. And we will see the same this time around. |
The only one making this claim is Israel, this is simply because this is the "easiest" solution for them with regards to stability in the region and their previously negotiated treaty. Their perspective is, they have been oppressed for 30 years but stable with us so who cares, lets keep it how it is. The Israeli people, on the otherhand, feel that Egypt indeed has the right to self determinism. (They would be hypocrites if they didn't) I'm sure that with a proper democracy, Israel will probably have more to benefit with egypt as a partner.
The next point i'd like to make is that you are putting all of Islam (although i hate all religion i must come to its defense here) under one umbrella and equate the moderates to the extremists. There is no eye of allah "iatolla" in egypt and there never was. Besides, Iran is Shia muslim while egypt is predominatley suni (as well as the muslim brotherhood). That's like comparing jehova's witness' with roman catholics.
religion = bull, seperation of church and state is imparative in my belief, but more importantly the right for the nation's self determinism superceeds all. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
Who are leading it? I don't think you know how secular egypt is and how it has been, for the past 60 years or so, the lead arab country in westernization. Mubarak did a good job to quell the islamists back in 1981 after the sadat assassination and egypt has grown exponentially westernized since then. The religious are moderates for the majority and the rest are secular, atheists, christians and jews. Just looking at how organized the protests were and how peaceful they were overall (besides the police entising and inciting violence on the people, and perhaps letting prisoners out) one can see that this isn`t a people who will be easily swayed by islamist propaganda.
It`s the students that are leading this, the business man, the shop keeper, the professors etc. The ones who have been under the iron fist of mubarak for the past 30 odd years. Why deny them democracy? Don't you think this will help to better stability in the middle east? A direction for other arab countries to follow suite? Reduce hostility with israel?
I honestly doubt the muslim brotherhood would take power. You can see the protestors, hear them out, see what they preach. Egypt will never turn to be an islamic state.
To deny egypt a democracy would be the equivalent of overlooking attrocaties such as black slavery and the genocide of jews. The people have been oppressed of their freedoms for a majority of mubarak's rule. Let them at least have their freedom of speech and free will to determine their government. |
I think its great that they are overthrowing the government as long as the results are truly justifiable. Getting rid of one dictator for an even worse one would be tragic.
Mohamed ElBaradei is jockeying to become the leader. This would basically mean the end of the semi secular state that Egypt is today and set the stage for a theocracy. He has ties to the muslim brotherhood and makes no qualms about it. He is talking to the military about being handed power. I havnt heard anything about elections either.
If a real vote is held and the results are valid then i stand corrected. But from what I have read (other than the mainstream) it seems to me that the islamist are hiding behind those who truly want freedom and are waiting in the wings and making backroom deals to get power. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
The only one making this claim is Israel, this is simply because this is the "easiest" solution for them with regards to stability in the region and their previously negotiated treaty. Their perspective is, they have been oppressed for 30 years but stable with us so who cares, lets keep it how it is. The Israeli people, on the otherhand, feel that Egypt indeed has the right to self determinism. (They would be hypocrites if they didn't) I'm sure that with a proper democracy, Israel will probably have more to benefit with egypt as a partner.
The next point i'd like to make is that you are putting all of Islam (although i hate all religion i must come to its defense here) under one umbrella and equate the moderates to the extremists. There is no eye of allah "iatolla" in egypt and there never was. Besides, Iran is Shia muslim while egypt is predominatley suni (as well as the muslim brotherhood). That's like comparing jehova's witness' with roman catholics.
religion = bull, seperation of church and state is imparative in my belief, but more importantly the right for the nation's self determinism superceeds all. |
IF it becomes a proper democracy.
As for islamists. The extremists are the ones behind this. Also Any non secular islamic government would strip rights away from its citizens and would be very militant against the west.
Show me a theocratic islamic state that doesnt fit the criteria i just mentioned. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
If a real vote is held and the results are valid then i stand corrected. |
This is what they are gearing for. The constitution, from what i understand, is fairly secular. The amendmants should be more freedom of choice for the people. Afterall, it should be the people's government, not the government's people. |
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| jad |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
Who are leading it? I don't think you know how secular egypt is and how it has been, for the past 60 years or so, the lead arab country in westernization. Mubarak did a good job to quell the islamists back in 1981 after the sadat assassination and egypt has grown exponentially westernized since then. The religious are moderates for the majority and the rest are secular, atheists, christians and jews. Just looking at how organized the protests were and how peaceful they were overall (besides the police entising and inciting violence on the people, and perhaps letting prisoners out) one can see that this isn`t a people who will be easily swayed by islamist propaganda. |
Well said. |
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| Abercrombie |
| quote: | Originally posted by jad
Well said. |
HEY! I agree with you... High Five! |
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