Religious people all have mental disorders do they?
That is insulting to my religion as well as the fact that I have a diagnosed mental disorder that a professional DOCTOR doesn't equate to me being religious.
Also....
You know absolutely NOTHING about Catholicism if you believe that we can murder people, make some half-assed confession to a priest and instantly be allowed into heaven. The Catholic faith is about forgiveness and I don't see why that should be attacked.
Another thing you keep saying is that all religious people should be treated like idiots and should be made to feel stupid because they believe in God. Why don't we just round up all the Christians and force them to wear crosses on arm patches so we can single them out, then we can gas them. Problem solved doncha think?
PivotTechno
Not sure whether to put this here or in Lira's apologist thread, but here's a rather telling debate featuring (presumed) experts from both sides of the topic - one one side, Hitchens and Stephen Fry (whose eloquence and compassion I quite admire), on the other, Catholic Archbishop John Onaiyekan & Ann Widdecombe MP.
lol @ Fry: "Oh, I knew they'd bring up condoms and child rape and homosexuality...It's a bit like a burglar in court saying, 'Well you would bring up that burglary and that manslaughter, you never mention the fact that I gave my father a birthday present!'"
Nrg2Nfinit
I think one of the issue's within this debate/ show, is that religious people aren't clear about their beleifs.. you call yourselves catholics, but what do you actually take from that religion? How are you selective of what or what you don't take from the bible? These items need to be identified because every criticism made against you; you throw your hands up in the air and say "of course we don't believe that"
so what do you believe? Srussell, Alex? what do you take from the bible and what do you leave behind.. and who draws that line. I would think a true catholic would let the pope decide (As he is the highest authority) and if that is the case, there are still quite a number of contraversial issues that stem from his side. I'm pretty sure the pope believes in the wizardry of jesus christ. curing leppers walking on water, imaculate conception etc. I would say beliefs like this simply skim the surface for moderate to conservative catholics (from observation of friends i have and their friends and family). But before i continue further, i think its only fair that instead of putting words in your mouthes, that you clearly define these rules yourselves before acting as if you are persecuted for your beliefs (from which none of us actually know what they are).
The issue here is that if you start nit picking and choosing what you wish to take and dismiss from the religion, that you are no longer really accepted into the religion. For example, divorce and remarrying, homosexuality, abortion, contraception. All these items are not condoned by the catholic church, and you should be in agreement with that stance to call yourselves true catholics.
Lira
quote:
Originally posted by PivotTechno
lol @ Fry: "Oh, I knew they'd bring up condoms and child rape and homosexuality...It's a bit like a burglar in court saying, 'Well you would bring up that burglary and that manslaughter, you never mention the fact that I gave my father a birthday present!'"
:stongue:
I think it belongs in the other thread, actually. I meant to have this as an honest tribute to Hitchens in order to avoid or at least minimise the bickering that would eventually start here.
srussell0018
quote:
Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
so what do you believe? Srussell, Alex?
Have you literally read none of what I've wrote? I'm not Catholic.
You do realize that The Bible is used by more than just Catholics though, right? Your statement regarding "true" Catholics is where I stopped taking your post seriously. It's full of completely loaded questions. If you're a "true" Catholic, then you believe in wizardry, and if you don't believe in wizardry, you're not a "true" Catholic. That's circular logic, and your demand for any Catholics on this board to jot down all of their beliefs so that you may criticize them is a bit extreme, don't you think?
Why not just criticize the parts of The Bible that you disagree with it, and do away with your criticism of every member of Catholicism simply for believing in that faith? It's not up to them to explain to you what they believe and why they believe it. It's up to you to not ignorantly throw down blanketed criticism on millions upon millions of people just because some of them might firmly believe in illogical events.
And this:
quote:
Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
The issue here is that if you start nit picking and choosing what you wish to take and dismiss from the religion, that you are no longer really accepted into the religion. For example, divorce and remarrying, homosexuality, abortion, contraception. All these items are not condoned by the catholic church, and you should be in agreement with that stance to call yourselves true catholics.
This is just ignorance to the n'th degree. You think there is some set of rules which governs who can and can't be Catholic. If you're okay with homosexuals, you can't be Catholic. If you're okay with abortion or contraception you can't be Catholic.
It seems your entire outlook on the Catholic church as a whole is quite skewed. The Pope is the leader of the church, yes. But he does not dictate the beliefs of every person who wants to be part of the church. Take John Paul II as an example if you still don't buy into this. He certainly didn't hold the draconian belief system that you attempt to characterize all Catholics with. Just because the head of some organization holds certain beliefs, doesn't mean every member must hold the same ones. You don't have to take a belief test every Sunday for the church to allow you to remain Catholic.
Think of when the US invaded Iraq in 2003. Do you think that because the president thought it was a good idea, that it was a requirement of all American citizens to also think it's a good idea, and that if they didn't, they weren't true Americans?
zyklon-jay
believe in mudkips and mudkips shall set you free.
Vector A
Believe in Moses, receive bacon and a gorilla.
EddieZilker
Believe in mosses and receive wasabi.
Joss Weatherby
quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
Believe in mosses and receive chinese food.
