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Can alcohol turn otherwise nice people into supercharged assh0les? (pg. 4)
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I asked "Is there any evidence that alcohol has a fundamentally different effect on their brain, that it can conjure up behaviour that simply isn't there otherwise?" You replied "Yes" and then gave an explanation that totally failed to demonstrate that. |
The evidence is exactly as I said. The "fundamentally different effect on their brain" has to do with an innate physiological alteration in the function of catecholamines.
I'm only arguing against your assertion that people can consciously control and/or override the effects of catecholamines. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| That's not really what I'm arguing. Going back to the start of the thread, the question is whether there are totally nice, balanced individuals who can lose it solely due to the effects of alcohol. That's not what you're talking about here. What I've been saying since the start is that those people who appear to be taken over by some demon without any antecedent are not just explained away by dopamine. As I said before, they are often not alcoholics or addicts, which rules out this explanation. For me, it's psychological. I don't believe ostensibly normal people can just lose control unless part of them wants to. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
That's not really what I'm arguing. Going back to the start of the thread, the question is whether there are totally nice, balanced individuals who can lose it solely due to the effects of alcohol. That's not what you're talking about here. What I've been saying since the start is that those people who appear to be taken over by some demon without any antecedent are not just explained away by dopamine. As I said before, they are often not alcoholics or addicts, which rules out this explanation. For me, it's psychological. I don't believe ostensibly normal people can just lose control unless part of them wants to. |
I would agree except I've seen that one girl I mentioned earlier who is otherwise perfectly normal, has a job that she does very well in and not dumb, but you get the fire water in her and she becomes a raging nutter.
You could well argue it's just a latent personality trait, that it's always been in her and only surfaces when she's drunk but after knowing her for 6+ years and it only happening when she's hammered, it makes me think something chemical beyond her control is triggered.
I've even seen her in sober arguments and she's fairly timid, but three drinks later, she'll glass you for sneezing near her. |
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| AlphaStarred |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
You could well argue it's just a latent personality trait, that it's always been in her and only surfaces when she's drunk but after knowing her for 6+ years and it only happening when she's hammered, it makes me think something chemical beyond her control is triggered.
I've even seen her in sober arguments and she's fairly timid... |
It's normal for shy people to lose their inhibition when drunk. That's what alcohol does. Which is why many young people feel the need to drink before talking to/flirting/etc. with each other.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
...she'll glass you for sneezing near her. |
That's not normal. |
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| Jon_Snow |
| I'm skeptical that alcoholism is a disease. Maybe some people are more susceptible to additive behavior but that's different than saying I have disease that makes impossible to control my consumption of alcohol. You would need to have objective tests. There are many innate behaviors in us that are not a disease. For example over eating. |
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| AlphaStarred |
| It's an addiction, not a disease. You can't just quit a disease like you could an addiction. |
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| Jon_Snow |
| quote: | Originally posted by AlphaStarred
It's an addiction, not a disease. You can't just quit a disease like you could an addiction. |
People evading personal responsibility for their actions is national past time so much so it's almost a science. |
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| Alex |
I think we should now post quick stories of some of our drunken friend moments...
When I was renting an actual house I frequently had BBQs in the summer, so 30-40 people over wasn't a big deal on a Saturday evening. One friend (a lightweight with booze by all accounts) had too much and spotted a raccoon in my driveway and in one movement leaped out of his lawn chair and ran at the animal while waving his arms and yelling.
The guy is actually fun to have around, but in a separate incident he tried to get a fire going stronger by pouring beer on it because "beer has alcohol in it". :stongue: |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jon_Snow
I'm skeptical that alcoholism is a disease. Maybe some people are more susceptible to additive behavior but that's different than saying I have disease that makes impossible to control my consumption of alcohol. You would need to have objective tests. There are many innate behaviors in us that are not a disease. For example over eating. |
Agree with this and Alpha Starred that it's in no way a diseases. I kind of find it insulting to people with serious diseases when alcoholics or addicts start using the term disease. |
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| Alex |
Probably not a disease, but there's some psychological going on if someone drinks too much, snorts too much, or hoards dozens of dead cats.
Whether it's a serious or legitimate psychological problem, well that depends on the circumstances, but there's something going on that needs to be addressed.
Edit:
Should be noted though that a lot of people who study the brain believe it is a disease, at least from a genetic standpoint. I've read that children of addicts are at a substantially increased risk of developing an addiction of their own. |
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| Lira |
Well, nice people can be occasionally uncouth under exceptional circumstances (say, a nice person stressed at work with family problems may well snap if pressed long and hard enough), and alcohol can definitely help.
So, can it? Well, yeah. Will it? Not necessarily. |
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| OrangestO |
I'm surprised by the genuine ignorance displayed in this thread about alcoholism/addiction. Figured more people, especially on this forum, would have more firsthand experience with it. But at the same time, I'm not surprised by the skepticism. I can freely admit that I have alcohol issues. I don't consider it a disease, but I definitely think of it as a psychological disorder knowing the things I deal with personally. I could share story after story about my own battles with it. The blackouts. The negative impacts. The uncontrollable urges and cravings. I've quit drinking a hundred and one times. I've tried; I've failed. I've tried again. I want to share more about my own battle with the bottle, but I'd like to read this book first before doing so. It's the first time I can connect to and understand someone's insights on the subject, so it's sort of an exciting thing for me. There's a good convo about this that starts at the ten-minute mark on this podcast episode. I think people with or without the problem could benefit from listening to it.
https://soundcloud.com/richroll/rrp188 |
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