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Can alcohol turn otherwise nice people into supercharged assh0les? (pg. 6)
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by AlphaStarred
Indeed. Not sure about what "genuine ignorance" he was alluding to. Disorder and disease are two different things. |
Exactly.
| quote: | Originally posted by System J
OrangestO seems to be projecting his own problems onto this thread. I don't think this is necessarily about addictive at all, just those people who seem to flip into a different personality when they do drink (which might not be that often).
With that said, this discussion has made me rethink my initial statement. I don't really know anyone with a serious drinking problem. My statement was made from knowing people who do stupid careless when drunk, who clearly want an outlet to act out a bit. The idea that people might have such a dangerous relationship with alcohol that they can't control their urge to binge (and then the behaviour that follows) is an alien one to me, but it's clearly close to the bone for OrangestO.
I personally do not have an addictive or excessive personality. At all. I cannot psychologically relate to it. I get bored of doing anything to excess. Alcohol just makes me feel physically. I can't be bothered with feeling hungover, especially at the moment when I'm training. Smoking weed is just a write-off of a day. Even when I go clubbing I'm always thinking of how I'll feel on Monday morning if I go that little bit further. Perhaps I just have naturally good dopamine balance and I find easy what is a real battle to other people.
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I'm very surprised that you A) live in the UK and further B) Live in the north and don't know a single person with a drinking problem. It's actually statistically extremely rare not to know anyone that has an alcohol addiction. The NHS figures are that about 1/10 have alcohol problems and those figures are probably a little conservative.
It's different wherever you go but American standards, I'm an alchy but by European standards I'm a moderate recreational drinker. I have on family member (not blood related) who is a full alcoholic and I probably know 1 or two more people that I would consider having a problem, albeit on the lighter end of things. |
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| Jon_Snow |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
OrangestO seems to be projecting his own problems onto this thread. I don't think this is necessarily about addictive at all...
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Orange strikes me as a self help red piller. While I've had family members and acquaintances who are or were alcoholics I can't really say that has helped me under it any better. |
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| Silky Johnson |
It's really juvenile and unappealing when people can't handle their and don't know how to act with discretion. Maybe it's hilarious when you're 18/19/early 20s, but a grown ass adult acting like a frat boy is just sad. I don't get the appeal of getting piss wasted like that.
Edit: I don't mean to make it sound like that has anything to do with alcoholism because I don't. |
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| Alex |
Yeah I actually get a little uncomfortable when I've invited 20 or so people over and there's that one dude or "broad" that starts getting annoying as .
I had to stop inviting one chick to stuff because she got a little too rapey. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I'm very surprised that you A) live in the UK and further B) Live in the north and don't know a single person with a drinking problem. It's actually statistically extremely rare not to know anyone that has an alcohol addiction. The NHS figures are that about 1/10 have alcohol problems and those figures are probably a little conservative. |
I really don't know where you pull your statistics from. According to Public Health England, 1.6 million people in the UK "may have some level of dependence on alcohol", which is considerably less than the 6 million or so it would require to reach your 1/10 figure. Research from the University of Sheffield concludes that harmful drinkers make up less than 5% of the population. Source: http://www.theguardian.com/society/...-figures-reveal
Now don't get me wrong, I have worked with people who were clearly alcoholics. I have friends-of-friends who are alcoholics. So I know of people who are alcoholics. But none of my friends have drinking problems, and certainly I wouldn't go on a night out with someone who has a drinking problem. I know people who drink a load more than is healthy, but they can't be classified as having a serious problem. |
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| Jon_Snow |
| It's an uncomfortable feeling being around someone who's an alcoholic. It's like witnessing an attempted suicide in slow motion. You want to stop it but there is nothing you can do. |
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| enydo |
Yeah, imagine getting to watch a close family member go through it.
To be honest, if you have no direct and tangible experience with alcoholism or alcoholics your opinion on it is probably really dumb. |
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| Alex |
| quote: | Originally posted by enydo
To be honest, if you have no direct and tangible experience with alcoholism or alcoholics your opinion on it is probably really dumb. |
No doubt. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I really don't know where you pull your statistics from.
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The National Health Service (NHS)..
| quote: | | The NHS official estimates are that around 9% of men in the UK and 4% of UK women show signs of alcohol dependence |
| quote: | | More than 9 million people in England regularly drink more than the recommended daily limits or are alcohol dependent |
| quote: |
Only 6.4% of dependent drinkers access treatment in the UK (108,906 in 2012).
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http://www.nhs.uk/news/2011/05May/P...tal-visits.aspx
https://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/h...ics-on-alcohol/
9 million people is about 1 in 10, as I said before.
I don't quite know the quantification of "Harmful drinkers" as it's an ambiguous term, but the NHS spells it out clearly and the worrying thing is, it's an upward trend (i.e. Getting worse).
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Now don't get me wrong, I have worked with people who were clearly alcoholics. I have friends-of-friends who are alcoholics. So I know of people who are alcoholics. But none of my friends have drinking problems, and certainly I wouldn't go on a night out with someone who has a drinking problem. I know people who drink a load more than is healthy, but they can't be classified as having a serious problem.
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I suppose it comes down to how often they do it; if someone drinks too much on say, a weekly basis, then I would say they really have an alcohol problem or dependency (at least by NHS standards they do). |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by enydo
Yeah, imagine getting to watch a close family member go through it.
To be honest, if you have no direct and tangible experience with alcoholism or alcoholics your opinion on it is probably really dumb. |
My uncle. Vodka first thing in the morning, all day and last thing at night. The crazy thing is that about 5 years ago, he beat it for two years.
And by beat it, I don't mean the bull AA thing (where the dependency is just shifted to meetings rather than alcohol, where you can't even be around drink or drinkers for fear of relapsing etc) - I mean he could take it or leave it, drink responsibly or even get and not needing a drink the morning after. He went to his normal GP and he made him come every day for a 30 min chat to get to the root of the issues. ing cured him after 6 months of that and for a couple of years was doing great.
Then he started having personal issues again (death in the family etc) and is again a full blown alcoholic. It's rough to see it but unless he wants help, it's not going to change. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I don't quite know the quantification of "Harmful drinkers" as it's an ambiguous term, but the NHS spells it out clearly and the worrying thing is, it's an upward trend (i.e. Getting worse). |
It doesn't spell it out. The only one of those statistics that relates to your claim is the 9%/4% one, and both those numbers are less than 10%. They average out at almost exactly the same as the stats I cited. The 9 million people one is people who "drink more than the recommended daily limits or are alcohol dependent". Given that government guidelines in the UK are 14 units of alcohol per week (less than 7 pints of lager) it doesn't take much to exceed the government's recommended limits. I seriously doubt anyone who drinks 8 pints a week would be classified as having a "problem", even if they are technically drinking an unhealthy amount.
Anyway, it's a pedantic side-point, but don't abuse stats. |
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| Alex |
| I don't abuse stats I abuse CATS! |
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