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Ontario BANS Smoking!! (pg. 7)
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Taking drugs doesn't have any negative effects on other people. Unless you get crazy with them, in which case I'd argue that it's as bad as anything else in this thread.
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No, but buying them injects money into crime organizations which hurts people. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
No, but buying them injects money into crime organizations which hurts people. |
Weak Greenhorn, very weak. That's mythology, not proven truth. The effects of second-hand smoke, on the other hand, are well-documented.
Edit: even if you could somehow make a case for that, which you can't, then the actual "harmful" activity would be giving money to the dealer, not taking the drugs. Giving money to the dealer is not the part that's against the law - only possessing the drugs. |
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| TranceGeek |
even though it's been 4 months since i last had a smoke
50,000,000 other smokers can't be wrong!! |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Weak Greenhorn, very weak. That's mythology, not proven truth. The effects of second-hand smoke, on the other hand, are well-documented.
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Right. Crime syndicates don't maintain power through violence or anything right? :rolleyes:
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Edit: even if you could somehow make a case for that, which you can't, then the actual "harmful" activity would be giving money to the dealer, not taking the drugs. Giving money to the dealer is not the part that's against the law - only possessing the drugs. |
Wow, you seem to be getting pretty desperate here. Regardless of these technicalities, you're still doing something illegal (buying drugs) which results in something harmful (injecting money into criminal organizations, thereby making them thrive).
Edit: Funny how you use the word "weak" and then follow up with a reply like that. ;) |
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Taking drugs doesn't have any negative effects on other people. Unless you get crazy with them, in which case I'd argue that it's as bad as anything else in this thread.
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what about people who might care about you in the event something goes wrong ?
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
Right. Crime syndicates don't maintain power through violence or anything right? :rolleyes:
Wow, you seem to be getting pretty desperate here. Regardless of these technicalities, you're still doing something illegal (buying drugs) which results in something harmful (injecting money into criminal organizations, thereby making them thrive). |
*I'm* getting desperate? LOL, that's a good one! I'm not the one relying on anti-drug propaganda from 10 years ago to make my case.
Of course crime syndicates maintain power through violence. However, there has never been the tiniest shred of hard evidence that said crime syndicates are the primary producers of those drugs. The claims for that are based on police finding a few syndicate members with small scale drug operations and using that info as "evidence" that all drug money goes toward violent crime. Ridiculous.
And it's nice of you to dismiss my argument as "technicalities", but if you're going to broaden it to the extent of "doing something illegal which results in something harmful", then I can think of A LOT more things to include in that category. Don't go there d00d, you know as well as I do that those technicalities are important.
With smoking, they are trying to make it illegal BECAUSE it's harmful - the harmful act IS the illegal act. And not harmful to the person doing it, but harmful do other people who do NOT have a say in the matter. With drugs it's another story entirely, the drug laws are in place only to erode individual rights and give police more power, and the illegal act is VERY far removed from any harmful act (if indeed there IS any harmful act, which you still can't prove).
Don't tell me I'm desperate - you're the one grasping at straws and posting folklore as evidence. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by dEsidEL
what about people who might care about you in the event something goes wrong ?
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Again, that opens it up to a ridiculously broad range of categories. By that logic, we should make skydiving, bungee jumping, fatty foods, and going outside after dark illegal too. |
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| Swamper |
| w00t this is entertaining |
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Again, that opens it up to a ridiculously broad range of categories. By that logic, we should make skydiving, bungee jumping, fatty foods, and going outside after dark illegal too. |
and your logic is flawwed
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| The Highroller |
If you dismiss the fact that crime syndicates generate huge profits from the drug trade, then you are being very naive, or just playing stupid to prove your point.
I didn't think we were talking about the government making smoking illegal, I thought we were talking about them banning enclosed outdoor patios. If someone wants to go outside into an enclosed patio and then complain about being violated, then maybe they shouldn't go out into the ing SMOKING patio. It's not harmful to them if they don't go where smokers go.
| quote: | | even if you could somehow make a case for that, which you can't, then the actual "harmful" activity would be giving money to the dealer, not taking the drugs. Giving money to the dealer is not the part that's against the law - only possessing the drugs. |
This IS a techicality. In most cases, if you possess a drug, you've given money to a dealer. They go hand in hand. Unless you're making your own drugs, you are supporting organized crime. |
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| Xavier Moriarty |
highroller i understand your anger but we smokers will never win, and it looks like we'll have to accept it.
UNLESS instead of smoking in the clubs, all smokers simply DO NOT GO TO ANY CLUBS OR BARS for JUST ONE WEEKEND in the summer time, just to make a point, just one weekend ( i know this will never happen, but just imagine....)
that big brother (somebody said something about conspiraces or paranoia or whatever) i would really like to know how come it's legal to buy them (smokes), it's legal to kill yourself with them, but its not legal to have a smoke in the club, in the smoking area???
paranoia ???
pft
we're ing sheep and there is nothing that we can do about it.
law is WRONG, at least in this case. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
If you dismiss the fact that crime syndicates generate huge profits from the drug trade, then you are being very naive, or just playing stupid to prove your point. |
Prove it Graham, because I think you're full of . And you have to also prove that it's ONLY the crime syndicates that make drugs, because even IF they make a huge profit, if they only sell 10% of the drugs then there is no reliable evidence that the drugs "Mr. X" buys is going to any of those syndicates.
| quote: | | I didn't think we were talking about the government making smoking illegal, I thought we were talking about them banning enclosed outdoor patios. If someone wants to go outside into an enclosed patio and then complain about being violated, then maybe they shouldn't go out into the ing SMOKING patio. It's not harmful to them if they don't go where smokers go. |
I agree, it's a smoking patio. What I'm talking about is your response that you are simply going to smoke inside the club, where it is clearly defined as a NO-SMOKING area. If you want to go out on the patio and smoke even if it's illegal, I don't care, I only care if you do it INSIDE because they've made it illegal OUTSIDE.
| quote: | | This IS a techicality. In most cases, if you possess a drug, you've given money to a dealer. They go hand in hand. Unless you're making your own drugs, you are supporting organized crime. |
Giving money to a dealer is not supporting organized crime. Again you rely on this junk mythology that every dollar spent on drugs goes to crime syndicates. It's not true! If you think it is, PROVE IT.
And even if you prove it, it's hardly analogous to smoking because the "violence" committed by those "crime syndicates" are SO FAR REMOVED from the actual deal. When you smoke in a crowded club, you are BLOWING TOXIC FUMES DIRECTLY DOWN SOMEONE'S THROAT.
And you STILL have yet to address the analogy with speeding on a highway, which is A LOT closer to the actual issue than drug dealing. :rolleyes: You talk to me about technicalities, well YOU brought up this whole irrelevant drug subject and started introducing the technicalities of how you're "supporting organized crime". Get off it!
Why don't you address the arguments *I* made, instead of creating your own straw-man arguments and getting me to debate those?
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Anyway, as much as I'd love to spend all night arguing about this, I have to work tomorrow, so I'll just sum it up:
When you smoke in a crowded club, you are doing something that directly harms others. Not something that could potentially harm others, not something that could potentially help someone else to harm others, but something that DIRECTLY harms others. Not doing it "often" is not an excuse to be doing it at all.
If you have a problem a law, then protest it the way laws are supposed to be protested in a democratic society. To say that it's not worth your time to protest, and you're just going to break the law because you don't do it very often, is nothing more than pure laziness and disrespect for authority.
Civil disobedience is understandable when all other means of protest have been exhausted (our traffic laws and drug laws aren't going anywhere anytime soon), but when someone's IMMEDIATE response to a law is " that, I'm going to do it anyway", then one has to wonder about that person's true motivations. |
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