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Schapelle Corby- innocent v guilty? (pg. 11)
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| sash |
| quote: | Originally posted by Xavier
I'd just love it if a nice Tsunami hits em again. Lets have our fingers cross for it. This is ing war. |
How dare they imprison an Australian girl!!!! Tens of thousands of truly innocent Indonesian civilans must die in retribution. |
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| mzvirbulis |
SOMETIMES LAWS GO TO FAR!
i think most of the time some keep on making laws just to keep em in the job. |
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| narcism |
i think the reason why some people feel compelled to feel some compassion is that they truely think justice wasnt served. Some of you may think she was guilty, but tell me which drug dealer/importer doesnt use the stuff :(
There were so many things that just went wrong to lead to this big stuff up, the bag was weighed in brisbane but was never recorded, she never seen it til she got to bali, they didnt fingerprint the bag, nor did they test the marijuana to see where it originated from.
You can sit here and say well in australia all of it would be dismissed ect, but indonesian law is different and it is corrupt.
How can bashir get 2 yrs in jail for masterminding the bali bombings, and this chick get 20.
And didnt anyone else hear that ron phone guy, who apparently is helping her out, has registered her name as a company and the website domain, and gets 50% of the profits from her book, and also they are making a documentry so who knows what slice he will get out of it for himself, people like this should be in jail for robbing others :whip: |
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| Trance Nutter |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i dont hold australians in very high esteem so i was not at all surprised.
absolutely, however as it is a govt's responsibility to protect its citizens, the federal govt should be doing all they can to prevent her from ending up in an indonesian gaol. |
Firstly - rez and Renegade, you guys are more or less spot on. New found respect for you guys being able to cut through the crap
pkc-
Piss off then,
and
they are
btw, if the exact situation was reversed, an Indonesian caught smuggling 4.1kg of marijuana into Australia, all those complaining would probably be saying they should be locked away for a long time...... |
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| narcism |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance Nutter
btw, if the exact situation was reversed, an Indonesian caught smuggling 4.1kg of marijuana into Australia, all those complaining would probably be saying they should be locked away for a long time...... |
i think if it was heroin everyone would be jumping up and down |
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| DJ_Ballistic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance Nutter
btw, if the exact situation was reversed, an Indonesian caught smuggling 4.1kg of marijuana into Australia, all those complaining would probably be saying they should be locked away for a long time...... |
lol somehow i doubt it
im not 100% sure but i dont think any of the crimes she was charged with would carry such a big term over here, nor would there ever be the possibility of a death sentence, and even if by some weird ass chance aus courts decided to put it on the table we have no precedent for it, unlike in bali, where they're pretty much renowned for it, which is why imo everyone was backing her, not because she's white or one of the 100 other stupid reasons i heard today, albeit there are some heads that do think like that, doesn't make her anymore guilty.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion tho, but in mine, if someone can get away with 2 years for mastermidning the deaths of so many people, then there's definitely something wrong when 4kg of dope will get you life imprisonment or a death sentence.
ps i do agree with everyone who said that this case was overly commercialised but wtf isnt nowdays? |
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| **Xenon** |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
the fact of the matter is that shooting or incarcerating mules (willing or not) will never achieve anything to deter the drug trade. people in every country are always poor enough to resort to something they'd rather not do. the people that are benefitting from the trade are laughing whilst their workers are suffering, and more energy and committment should be put into big fish. |
That is the Australian "big fish" approach and is based on a hypothesis not a proven theory. If Indonesia wants to target the drug trade in another fashion, the plain fact of the matter is that they can. They are a nation with a democratically-elected parliament with a proper justice framework in place. How seemingly archaic their laws might be in comparison to ours is irrelevant. If Bush, Howard et al want to practice what they preach then they should have no part in interfering with the laws of a democratic nation.
It's once again a case of Australia impigning on a South-East Asian nation's sovereignty (c.f. Australia's willingness to send troops into Asia to pre-emptively strike terrorism). Mahathir would be having a field day if he was still in power.
And it happens once again...in a sea of anger and emotion, constantly I see bombarded in the media these mistruths and false allegations (c.f. post-9/11 America -> WMDs, Osama/Saddam connection, etc.). I prey victim to one this morning as I posted earlier that on the radio they had claimed that two out of the three charges had been dropped. This was simply untrue and I later learnt that this had been propogated by a 3rd party analysis. An analysis which was passed around the media earlier in the morning and had nothing to do with the actual trial proceedings whatsoever.
And I'll attack another quite bandied catch-cry: "She gets 20 years, the Bali bombers get 2. That's bull!!"
There have so far been 35 people convicted of crimes relating to the Bali bombings. The shortest sentence has been 3 years, three face the death sentence. Most when saying that phrase, whether they are aware of it or not, are referring to Abu Bakar Baasyir who was convicted on "evil conspiracy" charges and sentenced to 2.5 years imprisonment. There was never any conclusive proof that Baasyir had been the so-called mastermind as the Western media had made him out to be. It was only ever proven that he had simply given his approval and nothing else. I cannot see an Australian court giving any harsher a sentence to be honest for someone who was not involved at any stage in the planning of the attack. It matters not whether he was the "spriritual elder" or not, that doesn't make him the leader of the specific attack. As I found in the following:
| quote: | | Analysts and independent lawyers say the prosecutors were hampered by a lack of strong evidence against Bashir and witnesses who were reluctant to testify. |
And this:
| quote: | The cleric faced the death penalty over several of the seven charges, but most analysts had predicted he would receive only a minor sentence as the prosecution had produced only a couple of witnesses that had identified him as Jemaah Islamiyah's leader. Nearly all of the convicted bombers summoned to testify withdrew earlier statements incriminating the cleric or refused to give evidence.
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Judges said Baasyir's conviction was based on a police record that convicted Bali bombers Mubarok and Amrozi had met with the cleric at his house in Solo, Central Java, in August 2002 and asked for permission to carry out an "event" in Bali.
The defendant has been proved to have replied 'It's up to you, because you are the ones who know the situation in the field'," said [Judge] Sudarto. |
And what isn't surprising either is the length of Corby's sentence. It is as if no-one expected this harsh a sentence. Again if anyone had bothered to do any pro-active research on the matter instead of reacting irrationally afterwards then they would see that this is a lenient sentence relatively speaking.
Found in another news clipping:
| quote: | | Prime Minister John Howard said yesterday that he would stress to new Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono that Australians want the sentences handed down for the Bali bombers 'carried out in full'. Three convicted bombers face death sentences. |
Is anyone screaming for those death sentences to be commuted to life (since we care so much for our laws)? Harsh penalties work both ways.
What really makes my blood boil is not the Indonesian justice system but rather those who have no conviction in them to find the truth yet instead act purely out of their own self-interests, emotions and ignorance. The farcical sides of the media which grasp at half-truths and the unquestioning idiots who consume that media wholesale fit the bill, perfectly. |
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| Trance Nutter |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Ballistic
lol somehow i doubt it
im not 100% sure but i dont think any of the crimes she was charged with would carry such a big term over here, nor would there ever be the possibility of a death sentence, and even if by some weird ass chance aus courts decided to put it on the table we have no precedent for it, unlike in bali, where they're pretty much renowned for it, which is why imo everyone was backing her, not because she's white or one of the 100 other stupid reasons i heard today, albeit there are some heads that do think like that, doesn't make her anymore guilty.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion tho, but in mine, if someone can get away with 2 years for mastermidning the deaths of so many people, then there's definitely something wrong when 4kg of dope will get you life imprisonment or a death sentence.
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Most people don't consciously think it though, its a sub conscious thing. But then, , how many people are you hearing on radio, "but she's Australian!" (craploads). Bam, I just turned on 10 news, and they had some guy who said (direct DIRECT quote) "this beautiful innocent girl"
Also, she didn't get life for 4kg of marijuana, she got 20 years.
And nowhere did I say that was justified. However we are talking about a different country, with a completely different culture. What is harsh or light for us is NOT the same to them
And they would (I didn't say how long did I, I just said a long time ;) ), there would be a massive outcry if a drug smuggler was let free here. |
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| narcism |
*sings*
money makes the world go round
| quote: | | Most when saying that phrase, whether they are aware of it or not, are referring to Abu Bakar Baasyir who was convicted on "evil conspiracy" charges and sentenced to 2.5 years imprisonment. There was never any conclusive proof that Baasyir had been the so-called mastermind as the Western media had made him out to be. It was only ever proven that he had simply given his approval and nothing else. |
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| Paulie |
| Rez i never actually said if she was guilty or not guilty. I said look beyond that, and there is compassion there. The look on a persons face when told the next 20 years is going to be spent behind a jail. The same goes for that boy in Vietnam. Thats all my point was. |
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| DJ_Ballistic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance Nutter
Most people don't consciously think it though, its a sub conscious thing. But then, , how many people are you hearing on radio, "but she's Australian!" (craploads). Bam, I just turned on 10 news, and they had some guy who said (direct DIRECT quote) "this beautiful innocent girl"
Okay, the Bashir sentence was ed up, he shoulda gone for a very long time.
Also, she didn't get life for 4kg of marijuana, she got 20 years.
And nowhere did I say that was justified. However we are talking about a different country, with a completely different culture. What is harsh or light for us is NOT the same to them
And they would (I didn't say how long did I, I just said a long time ;) ), there would be a massive outcry if a drug smuggler was let free here. |
Ppl say things like she's australian mostly becuase in australia you wouldn't get 20 years and so everyone thinks she should convicted according to australian law, because she's australian, obviously not gunna happen... And i seriously doubt people saying she's a beautiful innocent girl are saying that because they actually believe that being beautiful is sufficient to aquit her.
And i didnt say she got life either just that normally it does, well actually normally its death ,ann she should probably consider herself lucky, as ed up as it is, there have probably been people in her position before that faced the firing sqaud.
and i wasnt trying to debate your post, just the first bit about the reversed situations, just meant that no one would really be calling for a long jail sentence over here because thats not how we do it.
I doubt a drug smuggler would get even half her sentence over here. |
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| **Xenon** |
| quote: | Originally posted by narcism
*sings*
money makes the world go round |
Ummm it was a transparent trial just as Corby's was. I can't see how it would have been any different in Australia? The bombers didn't care about cutting deals with the prosecution in the end because they knew they were probably going to fry anyway (either that or some renewed faith in Islam). The prosecution hence failed to make a compelling case despite their best efforts. You can argue against the system but once again it is no different here. |
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