|
Looks like Canadians are finally getting it.... (pg. 6)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shamen DJ's
Isn't Paul Martin from Windsor? Anyway your extremist views would likely make people less likely to vote conservative. Also what is the conservative party's views on Iraq, didn't that help them loose the last election? I don't think the conservative party would be enough for you; you should be a fasciast.
As for Liberal vs Conservative; Bush will likely end up being the most incompetent president in U.S. history, and HE WILL BANKRUPT THE U.S.
Someday the U.S. will have to pay off the debt it owes the world. Any political party that gets too cozy with the Bush administration would make a big mistake. |
http://jonjayray.netfirms.com/hitler.html
:rolleyes: |
|
|
| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Whoa now... let's not start throwing the word fascist arround without firt recognizing what fascism is about. A) Nazism and Fascism are two very different animals... Fascism has no element of racism or creation of "the superman". B) Although often described as a right wing ideology Fascism spans the entire political spectrum and fascist ideology is in many ways at odds with the Canadian right wing. Remember, at the heart of any fascist system is a wide spread and universal social wellfare system including universal healthcare, education, labour relations (state mediated collective barganing and state funded labour unions), economic assistance to the poor, and a quasi-command economy. All these are things that the Canadian right wing would not support and put them at odds with fascists. The best way to think of fascism is as a communist system with a strong central government (as opposed to anarchy as Marx describes) and private property rights. DO NOT confuse Fascism with Nazism! Personally, I think a real Fascist government would do great things to unite our country and further Canadian values. IF you want to understand fascism look at the EU and Argentina... the two best examples of neo-fascist political systems. |
Agreed.
| quote: |
Let's not limit the Conservatives failure to win wide spread support in Ontario to the Iraq war. |
The party didn't exist when that decision was made.
| quote: | They also oppose gay marriage,
Support civil unions (respect for minority rights) AND the traditional definition of marriage (respect for the majority).
[quote]abortion, |
Nope. That was refuted in a post above.
| quote: | | universal health care, |
Again, untrue. They however want to experiment with private delivery of services.
| quote: | | more power and autonomy to the provinces (which equals a less powerful central government... which equals further disunity) |
Actually the centralization of government programs by the Lieberals in the 1960's is partly what led to the Quiet Revolution and disunity in the country. Remember, the Quebec referenda took place under Lieberal rule.
| quote: | | not to mention bilingualism. |
They support official bilingualism. However, we do need more flexibility in this country on that issue. Too many Anglophones are being discriminated against. |
|
|
| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by baystreetboi
...Where are the 130 lawyers providing legal support for Mr. Harper's position, and the disclosure of their donations to the CPC/Alliance? |
That's my point exactly.
| quote: | | so... you were able to find 20 out of a total of 130 individuals that donated to EITHER the Liberals or the NDP. A whopping 15%... There's a group with an obvious hidden agenda! By the way, the group that released that news report also stated that they reflect "differing opinions on the underlying issue". |
If that many people donated money to the Lieberals and NDP, just imagine how many of the 130 vote for the Lieberals and NDP.
Also, how many of them PERSONALLY PROFITED from litigation on this matter by billing the government? How many are looking for appointments to judicial positions?
How do they have differening opinions? Their only goal is to discredit the CPC. They're just political hacks.
| quote: | | rolling up 7+ years of donations in to one number may look great for effect, but in reality, for most people you listed, that means an average annual donation |
even better... that shows that they have a longstanding committment and attachment to those parties.
Constitutional law in Canada died in 1982. All that's left is bare politics. |
|
|
| Matt |
| I can't decide what's worse.... scandalous Liberals or extremist Conservatives.... |
|
|
| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Matt
extremist Conservatives.... |
Here's their policy declaration; which policies are extreme?
http://www.conservative.ca/document...DECLARATION.pdf
The Lieberals now want to decriminalize prostitution and legalize polygamy. That sounds pretty extreme to me. |
|
|
| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
The party didn't exist when that decision was made.
Nope. That was refuted in a post above.
Again, untrue. They however want to experiment with private delivery of services.
Actually the centralization of government programs by the Lieberals in the 1960's is partly what led to the Quiet Revolution and disunity in the country. Remember, the Quebec referenda took place under Lieberal rule.
They support official bilingualism. However, we do need more flexibility in this country on that issue. Too many Anglophones are being discriminated against. |
Just a few points
a) while the Conservative party did not exhist when Harper so vhemently pushed for Canada to join the Iraq war it's predecessors did. Many Ontario voters see the Conservative Party as essentially the same as the Alliance and the Alliance as simply a friendlier version of the Reform... perception being the most important thing in governing how one votes then leads to the Conservatives having to be accountable for the policies of its predecessors. I'm not saying it's right but it is true.... and unfortunate for the Conservatives.
b)Again with perception.... the Conservatives are perceived by many Ontario voters as having the same agenda as the Alliance despite what may be written in their policy book (having members of the party outright say they will not allow abortion or gay marriage - even though it is at odds with the party platform - doesn't help either). Since the Alliance opposed these things the voters believe the Conservatives oppose these things.... and let's not kid ourselves, the grassroots of the party still oppose abortion and gay marriage.
c) any privatization of health care services results in a non-universal health care system. Universal meaning the same for all, privatization (even if there is no user contribution involved) makes the system non-universal as services will differ based on the provider.
d) I agree that the Quiet Revolution was spawned by the centralization of social programs with the feds, however, that was just the catalyst.... dissention in Quebec had been growing for decades prior to this. The Quebec issue is only part of the regional clevage in this country so you cannot blame that for everything. The West hates the feds because they perceive that the feds cater to Ontario (which they kind of do, and who can blame any federal party for doing that as the majority of the population lives in Ontario). Regardless, as it presently stands providing greater autonomy to the provinces will allow them to create social and political strutures that magnify the existing differences between the regions thus magnifying the clevage itself.
e) You need to ammend this answer to read "too many unilingual persons" rather then Anglaphones. Do that and the statement is correct.
f) how do you do that thing where it breaks up the other person's quote because that would be easier then numbering all my responses.
I was once a member of the Liberal Party. I no longer am, not because of any scandal but because I firmly believe that fascist is the way to go. Unfortunately for me, there is no fascist party in this country. You have socialists, conservatives (ideologically speaking the Liberal Party is conservative), and liberals (ideologically speaking the Conservative Party is liberal). None of these ideologies balance social welfare with economics. |
|
|
| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Matt
I can't decide what's worse.... scandalous Liberals or extremist Conservatives.... |
I think for many it is a question of whether you go with the devil you know or the devil you don't |
|
|
| baystreetboi |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
That's my point exactly.
If that many people donated money to the Lieberals and NDP, just imagine how many of the 130 vote for the Lieberals and NDP.
Also, how many of them PERSONALLY PROFITED from litigation on this matter by billing the government? How many are looking for appointments to judicial positions?
How do they have differening opinions? Their only goal is to discredit the CPC. They're just political hacks.
even better... that shows that they have a longstanding committment and attachment to those parties.
Constitutional law in Canada died in 1982. All that's left is bare politics. |
It never ceases to amaze me how you can try and twist / distort things to suit your own purposes. Maybe you should be running the CPC!
There are 130 constitutional lawyers that claim the nothwithstanding clause is required to do what Harper wants. Where are the constitutional experts supporting Harper saying he can just say "marriage is traditional" and all will be fine in Charter-land? There aren't any! (Or if their are, not nearly the number that say the opposite). Whether you agree with the principles of the Charter or not, the fact is it is now part of our constitution... and if you want to play politics, you have to play by the rules.
The group in question has differing opinions as to whether same-sex marriage should be allowed or not. That opinion is separate from their LEGAL and PROFESSIONAL opinion about whether the notwithstanding clause is required to overturn a decision of a court with regard to a charter right.
...and the fact that your figures regarding donations come from a period of 7+ years does not mean they have a deep and longstanding relationship to the parties. In some cases, they may have donated one time, 7 years ago. That certainly doesn't prove the point you're trying to make. |
|
|
| malek |
if politicians from quebec are such an issue, why do you guys stil vote for them?!?!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
|
|
| TrueToTheCrew |
This thread is proof of how effective biased media is in brainwashing canadians. The cbc aka Liberals has done such a good job of tainting your mind. What is so bad with the Conservatives. They want to preserve the fundamentals our country was born on, put money back in our pockets, reduce the amount of government in our lives, etc etc.
Seriously, the NDP and Green parties are not practical governments. Their motivations to govern are obsured. Govern for the poor or Govern for the Trees. SOrry, as much as i would like to see the poor live better, im not about to sign over my cheques to them.
The Liberals are way to corrupt and are in the middle too often. The Bloc, , let them seperate so we can watch them crumble. Maybe they can use Canadian Tire money as their currency. |
|
|
| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by TrueToTheCrew
This thread is proof of how effective biased media is in brainwashing canadians. The cbc aka Liberals has done such a good job of tainting your mind. What is so bad with the Conservatives. They want to preserve the fundamentals our country was born on, put money back in our pockets, reduce the amount of government in our lives, etc etc.
Seriously, the NDP and Green parties are not practical governments. Their motivations to govern are obsured. Govern for the poor or Govern for the Trees. SOrry, as much as i would like to see the poor live better, im not about to sign over my cheques to them.
The Liberals are way to corrupt and are in the middle too often. The Bloc, , let them seperate so we can watch them crumble. Maybe they can use Canadian Tire money as their currency. |
ya and this is the proof that you know jack about the other parties too, I will let others defend the NDP and Green, but the Block is not about seperation only, but to have a voice for Quebec in the House of Common... a kind of veto if you prefer, something Albertans want to immitate with their Bloc Alberta or whatever they want to call it. |
|
|
| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by TrueToTheCrew
What is so bad with the Conservatives. They want to preserve the fundamentals our country was born on, put money back in our pockets, reduce the amount of government in our lives, etc etc.
|
As a note to start, I do not support any political party currently.
My personal problem with the Conservative party is that they are shot sighted in many repects. Number 1) their quest to preserve the "fundamentals" only reflects the "fundamentals" of one segment of Canadian society, and a deminishing segment at that. Moreover, their fundamentals are at odds with the values encoded in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (in some respects). Essentially, to fulfill all the desires of the Conservative party we would need to radically alter the Charter.... I'm not willing to sacrafice the charter so that homosexuals cannot be called married. Number 2) many of the social programs that the Conservatives would like to cut funding to in order to return tax dollars to the people are programs that stimulate the economy. While this would result in an immediate economic advantage it would eventually slow our economy as government spending drops thus there is no job growth in the areas they stimulate, eventually the economy would stagnate. Moreover, they would cut debt reduction in order to decrease taxes. This is incredibly short sighted as it fails to recognize that a significant portion of our government's budget is spent on servicing the debt. If we were to eliminate the debt then we would free up 30-40% (I cannot recall the exact figure.... sorry) that could then be used for meaningful, significant, tax reduction and social spending.
Bring on the Fascist Party of Canada! |
|
|
|
|
