|
James Holden - The Idiots are Winning (pg. 3)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| paranoik0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Generation X
For you and everyone else who thinks otherwise, this is an extended collection of tracks, many of which are new. It IS NOT his artist album. It's silly how hating minimal techno and Holden's music is now becoming sort of a fad. This will be amazing... |
Yeah I agree. "Oh noes! James please do Janeiro and Nothing again!" :haha:
He's been brilliant since.. ever, in every different style he has tried, from the single 'Horizons' to the mix 'At The Controls'. The only moment when I think he lost it was when he criticised minimal, given the last I've heard of him was quite minimal. :conf: Tbh, haven't heard anything from him in a while, he could've gone another direction meanwhile. Just seems odd to bash something you were doing recently.
I see now in Discogs he has just released a track called "Sun Spots", what is it like, any good?
As for this particular album/collection of tracks/whatever, the only I've heard is Lump, and it's not exactly my fav track of him, always thought using children voices in order to sound scary was a cliché. It is quite a powerful track though. |
|
|
| Generation X |
| quote: | Originally posted by paranoik0
Yeah I agree. "Oh noes! James please do Janeiro and Nothing again!" :haha:
He's been brilliant since.. ever, in every different style he has tried, from the single 'Horizons' to the mix 'At The Controls'. The only moment when I think he lost it was when he criticised minimal, given the last I've heard of him was quite minimal. :conf: Tbh, haven't heard anything from him in a while, he could've gone another direction meanwhile. Just seems odd to bash something you were doing recently.
I see now in Discogs he has just released a track called "Sun Spots", what is it like, any good?
As for this particular album/collection of tracks/whatever, the only I've heard is Lump, and it's not exactly my fav track of him, always thought using children voices in order to sound scary was a cliché. It is quite a powerful track though. |
I don't think James wanted to make the track sound scary by ing up vocals or any samples. As he said in a quote, he wants a lot of his songs to sound alive and for him to be barely in control of the machines he's using to make music. Sun Spots is not really something I like too much, keep in mind it's a collaboration though; not just Holden on his own. I'm glad you're going into this open-minded paranoik0. I think after a few listens, it'll grow on you and probably blow your mind; like Holden has always done for me. |
|
|
| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by paranoik0
I see now in Discogs he has just released a track called "Sun Spots", what is it like, any good?
|
It should change your opinion of him thoroughly.
Complete . |
|
|
| ThomB |
If one track changes anyones views on an artist forever then this scene would be dead and buried as every single producer is guilty of releasing complete at some point.
It's hilarious to me how artist/genre bashing changes its focus so radically as time moves on.....how long until the next switch? On your marks, Get set.........
There will be tracks on this release that people will dislike and there are some which will get everyone talking. Until everyone has listened to the album wouldnt it be fairer to hold judgement? |
|
|
| chesco |
| quote: | Originally posted by paranoik0
I see now in Discogs he has just released a track called "Sun Spots", what is it like, any good? |
Its Terrible. |
|
|
| kush paintings |
| quote: | Originally posted by ThomB
There will be tracks on this release that people will dislike and there are some which will get everyone talking. Until everyone has listened to the album wouldnt it be fairer to hold judgement? |
\
I think a lot of the judgements are comming from his transformation as a producer, which of course is his right. But, it is also our right as consumers of Holden's stuff to blast it if we feel he is dissappointing. Sure it might just be wasted air, but I don't believe people are bandwagon jumping onto the Hate Holden train. I think its just a sign that what he's doing now is not conducive to his earlier releases, and therefore his fan base is upset. Also, he has seemed to morphed into a pretentious ass, calling out this and that. Great album title too :rolleyes:. I can only speak for myself on this one, but I wouldn't be surprised if more felt like this, with Balance we saw a DJ who seemed to be playing on a different level than everybody else. It really threw me head over heels into the whole EDM scene, as I felt more releases of that quality where sure to come in the future (at least from him). However, IMO he hasn't delivered on the same things that made him successful (and no that doesn't mean he had to replicate the Balance sound). This has left a bitter feeling, at least for me. Perhaps my judgement of a release I have yet to hear is misplaced. However, I cannot help myself to allow past dissappointments and what seems to be his current mind frame to make me jump to certain conclusions. The first being, Im sure I wont like 75% of whats on the cd. |
|
|
| ThomB |
| quote: | Originally posted by kush paintings
I think a lot of the judgements are comming from his transformation as a producer, which of course is his right. But, it is also our right as consumers of Holden's stuff to blast it if we feel he is dissappointing. Sure it might just be wasted air, but I don't believe people are bandwagon jumping onto the Hate Holden train. I think its just a sign that what he's doing now is not conducive to his earlier releases, and therefore his fan base is upset. Also, he has seemed to morphed into a pretentious ass, calling out this and that. Great album title too :rolleyes:. I can only speak for myself on this one, but I wouldn't be surprised if more felt like this, with Balance we saw a DJ who seemed to be playing on a different level than everybody else. It really threw me head over heels into the whole EDM scene, as I felt more releases of that quality where sure to come in the future (at least from him). However, IMO he hasn't delivered on the same things that made him successful (and no that doesn't mean he had to replicate the Balance sound). This has left a bitter feeling, at least for me. Perhaps my judgement of a release I have yet to hear is misplaced. However, I cannot help myself to allow past dissappointments and what seems to be his current mind frame to make me jump to certain conclusions. The first being, Im sure I wont like 75% of whats on the cd. |
I wasn't talking solely about Holden but I get your point.
Surely if we follow the frame of mind that, if a DJ/Producer has a golden age they should never be allowed to deviate from that style, we are stifling what is actually their artistic license and expression?
And if Holden is a 'pretentious ass' as you put it for having an opinion then surely we are all prenentious asses for having what is essentially our right to an opinion as it is indeed his.
Thats like saying we, as fans of music, have more of a right to an opinion than those who make it which makes no sense to me whatsoever |
|
|
| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by ThomB
And if Holden is a 'pretentious ass' as you put it for having an opinion then surely we are all prenentious asses for having what is essentially our right to an opinion as it is indeed his.
Thats like saying we, as fans of music, have more of a right to an opinion than those who make it which makes no sense to me whatsoever |
I'll agree that we all have a right to expressing our opinions, I do however think Holden's situation is different.
He's clearly called out artists in interviews, he's all over minimal and then proceeded to produce the second worst minimal production I've ever heard, and in general, he's seemed to promote this attitude that he's doing all these wonderful things with music that no one before him has. In this respect, it's not just Holden's opinion that matters, but how he's chosen to express it to the EDM community. He has every right to say what he wants, but to display such public hypocrisy on top of what appears to be disdain for the vast majority of his peers is, in my opinion, not the best move. |
|
|
| Djeebie |
| Bla bla bla, he'd better call his album The idiots are whining :rolleyes: |
|
|
| ThomB |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
He's clearly called out artists in interviews, he's all over minimal and then proceeded to produce the second worst minimal production I've ever heard, and in general, he's seemed to promote this attitude that he's doing all these wonderful things with music that no one before him has. In this respect, it's not just Holden's opinion that matters, but how he's chosen to express it to the EDM community. He has every right to say what he wants, but to display such public hypocrisy on top of what appears to be disdain for the vast majority of his peers is, in my opinion, not the best move. |
Does he not have the right to call out other artists? Surely thats what we spend half our days on this board doing?
Sunspots isnt his best work I grant you, but seeing as he himself hasn't showcased the track in live performances and simply used it more as a tool on At The Controls, I would hardly say he is pronouncing it as his best work.
With regard to his attitude of doing something different we will have to disagree - I think he is actually quite different to everyone else - maybe not in terms of quality (as that is purely personal preference) - but certainly in terms of how he approaches what he is doing in terms of both his labels standpoint and the way he approached ATC
We all have our favourites - my only point is that any artist has the right to criticize and question each others work and sound no matter how hypocritical it may sound.... if they didnt then the scene would stagnate ....its better to say stuff out loud than to think it and have no voice |
|
|
| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by ThomB
Does he not have the right to call out other artists? Surely thats what we spend half our days on this board doing?
|
You're very right, however James is a far more public figure than any of us, so to think that his choice of words won't have any impact on his fans opinion of him is foolish. Sure, he has every right to share his opinion, by the same token, we all have the right to form our opinion of him based on his actions and words. His words scream "arrogance" to me.
| quote: |
Sunspots isnt his best work I grant you, but seeing as he himself hasn't showcased the track in live performances and simply used it more as a tool on At The Controls, I would hardly say he is pronouncing it as his best work. |
It still recieved full release note as a DJ tool but as an actual tune. As such, I'll make my opinion of it compared to other minimal tunes.
| quote: |
With regard to his attitude of doing something different we will have to disagree - I think he is actually quite different to everyone else - maybe not in terms of quality (as that is purely personal preference) - but certainly in terms of how he approaches what he is doing in terms of both his labels standpoint and the way he approached ATC
|
Sorry m8, but you're dead wrong. Blake's post is spot on, "aphex twin, boards of canada, telefon tel aviv, and a load of germans" have been making music in the exact same, "Organic" fashion that James seems to champion these days. Beyond that, ATC is essentially only significant as a symbol of the paradigm shift between what you can do on real decks vs. a computer; And he's hardly the only artist, or the best artist, to be doing either.
| quote: |
We all have our favourites - my only point is that any artist has the right to criticize and question each others work and sound no matter how hypocritical it may sound.... if they didnt then the scene would stagnate ....its better to say stuff out loud than to think it and have no voice |
That's fine and well - My only point is that IMO there are far better ways to go about doing such things. Criticism is ESSENTIAL to the scene, however James blanket statements and broad accusations are hardly what I'd call constructive. All I see is someone who wants a reactioanry response, not someone taking a thoughtful and critical look at the scene they'd be nothing without. |
|
|
| ThomB |
Banter is always a pleasure.
Could it not be possible that he (of reported high intelligence) made those comments with the pure intention of getting people like our goodselves to challenge and discuss it and raise his profile?
Hypocrite or PR Man?
Maybe that's the question we should ask ourselves.
I'm done with my soap box but will look forward to the album and the comments that with undoubtedly flow in upon its release. |
|
|
|
|
