Along with multiple wives they also say you should have as many kids as possible. The reason is simple. Most kids grow up to believe what their parents teach them. So if you have this new religion, the easiest way to make it grow is through your kids. Once it got a foothold, they change their stand on polygamy. Similar reasons for catholic leaders saying birth control is bad.
Echo of Silence
quote:
Originally posted by tranceDJ
I've seen things on tv where there are these little "mormon towns" where some weird goes on (kids getting beat, sexually abused, etc.) basically because they can do whatever they want since no one wants to go into their secluded towns. It usually takes a while for some kid to speak up and the police to actually go in and investigate.
My whole gripe with the Mormons and other religions similar to them is that it's completely ok to have a religion and everything but don't obsess on it and make it your entire life about it...give yourself some freedom and time away from stuff like that so you can actually enjoy your damn life, because it's too short.
Well, I think to many Mormans (not all) the religion is a way of life or if not a way of life, a huge part of their lives.
And many enjoy their lives very much. They may not do what you do or do the stuff you do for fun, but they probably find other things to do that they enjoy and that they consider fulfilling and fun.
quote:
Originally posted by jrbuddha
Along with multiple wives they also say you should have as many kids as possible. The reason is simple. Most kids grow up to believe what their parents teach them. So if you have this new religion, the easiest way to make it grow is through your kids. Once it got a foothold, they change their stand on polygamy. Similar reasons for catholic leaders saying birth control is bad.
The Church of Latter Day Saints hasn't condoned polygamy for about 150 years.
Catholics also aren't supposed to practice BC, right? I think lots of religions regard children as gifts from God or 'meant to be'...
wienerschnitzel
chrissi's right, and i'm tired of deffending my personal beliefs. I really don't care if you do or don't like religion or if you think the mormon church is a bunch of bollocks, but i think it is smart to do a little bit of legitimate research before stating facts. I won't argue that alot of mormons aren't close minded or self righteous, but i see that in alot of other churchs and groups as well.
Silky Johnson
I'm so sick of people who diss religion.
The problem isn't religion itself, but the people who teach it. You get the wrong person in the role of spiritual leader and of course it seems whack. Diss the religious leaders who mislead people, not the religion itself. FFS.
Sunsnail
quote:
Originally posted by analpie
I'm so sick of people who diss religion.
The problem isn't religion itself, but the people who teach it. You get the wrong person in the role of spiritual leader and of course it seems whack. Diss the religious leaders who mislead people, not the religion itself. FFS.
I have diss any religions, but why are you saying that the problem isnt a religion itself?
tranceDJ
quote:
Originally posted by analpie
I'm so sick of people who diss religion.
The problem isn't religion itself, but the people who teach it. You get the wrong person in the role of spiritual leader and of course it seems whack. Diss the religious leaders who mislead people, not the religion itself. FFS.
I've always thought this too. Say hypothetically Jesus never died and continued his teachings to this day, IMO Christianity would be completely different. He started his teachings around 2000 years ago and since then people have taken his basic principles and ideas and changed them to their liking. Some people (popes and such throughout the middle ages) might have had good ideas to add to the religion but I'm sure others didn't (i.e. the ones who said we have to go to the Middle East and kill Muslims in the name of God...I don't think Jesus would have suggested that one).
lex400sc
quote:
Originally posted by Danny Ocean
truth and reason is pretty subjective.
no they really aren't. there is only one truth and people of reason are the only ones who seek it out. religion is faith in false hope with a lack of critical thinking required for reasoning and an absence of any disprovable theory which can be applied to form hypotheses...
Fast Turtle
byu students scare me
lex400sc
religion is in fact a virus that infects our intelligent faculties and creates dangerously warped moralities...
L.E.N.
Such a touchy subject...you never know who you may offend. I stear clear of deep conversations on stuff like this.
Whatever makes you feel better if you ask me.
Fast Turtle
quote:
Originally posted by lex400sc
no they really aren't. there is only one truth and people of reason are the only ones who seek it out. religion is faith in false hope with a lack of critical thinking required for reasoning and an absence of any disprovable theory which can be applied to form hypotheses...
thanks for that subjective definition of the truth.
tranceDJ
Long...but a good read
George Carlin:
quote:
In the Bull Department, a businessman can't hold a candle to a clergyman. 'Cause I gotta tell you the truth, folks. When it comes to bull, big-time, major league bull, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bull story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull story. Holy !
But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is ed up.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.
No woman could or would ever things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a . Doesn't give a , which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.
So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a , I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.
And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.
Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.
I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.
But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?
Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and up Your Plan?
And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.
So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.
For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.
So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.
And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way.
And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was. In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!
(Copyright 1999 by George Carlin. Printed with permission.)
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Carlin has said many times that he is an atheist and is very critical of the religious through his humor, often directed at Catholics. Onstage, he has stated that "religion is just mind control."
During an August 1995 appearance on Tom Snyder's late-night CBS talk program, Carlin was responding to a caller during the show and elaborately described and defended his non-belief in a "man in the sky" who tells you "where you shouldn't put your hands."
Carlin was profiled in the New York Times: George Carlin, comedian. Attended Cardinal Hayes High School in the Bronx, but left during his sophomore year in 1952 and never went back to school. Before that he attended a Catholic grammar school, Corpus Christi, which he called "an experimental school."
"I credit that eight years of grammar school with nourishing me in a direction where I could trust myself and trust my instincts. They gave me the tools to reject my faith. They taught me to question and think for myself and to believe in my instincts to such an extent that I just said, 'This is a wonderful fairy tale they have going here, but it's not for me."' --New York Times, August 20, 1995, p17
Carlin was interviewed in the March/April 1997 issue of Mother Jones. He said, "The two big mistakes were the belief in a sky god -- that there's a man in the sky with 10 things he doesn't want you to do and you'll burn for a long time if you do them -- and private property, which I think is at the core of our failure as a species. That's the source of my indignations, my dissatisfactions, however it comes out on stage. I feel betrayed by the people I'm part of, these creatures, these magnificent creatures."
