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THE NEW YORK YANKEES THREAD 08 (pg. 5)
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| steven-neil |
'was the best' aint gonna win this world series, let's concentrate on 'is the best'...
The Yankees are still 'THE' best team in baseball due to the players that are still with us rather than the one's that didn't sign with us. |
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| Shamez214 |
| quote: | Originally posted by steven-neil
'was the best' aint gonna win this world series, let's concentrate on 'is the best'...
The Yankees are still 'THE' best team in baseball due to the players that are still with us rather than the one's that didn't sign with us. |
Really... there's a case to be made for the Red Sox, Tigers, Yankees, and Mets as "best team," though no one seems to want to admit it about the Mets because of their 5th starter? I've never understood mass medias bias against the Mets. |
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| GTS3gEclipse |
| Wins shouldn't be a major stat? Show me a manager that will say "we didnt win enough games this year to make it to the playoffs, but at least we didnt give up too many runs this year." Winning is everything. When the end of the day comes, a win is a win regardless of how it happens and thats the only stat that determines whether u move on or not. Maybe thats why the Mets have problems making the playoffs, they still can't understand the concept that I need to WIN games to get there. |
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| ludawg23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by GTS3gEclipse
Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling, Randy Johnson, Josh Beckett, Johan Santana are just a few more recent pitchers that are better than Pedro. Nolan Ryan, Sandy Koufax, Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove are all FAR superior the what Pedro ever is and will be. Calling Pedro the greatest pitcher of all time, especially with his blown game in the 2003 ALCS, is ludicrous. The best pitchers of all time win big games they dont blow them. |
I don't post much but this is pretty ridiculous. Pedro in his prime was UNTOUCHABLE. The most dominate pitcher from 98-03 by far.
99 was unreal, 23-4 with a 2.07 ERA and 313 strikeouts. Should have won MVP that year.
2000 was great as well where he posted a 1.74 ERA, 2nd lowest in the league was double that.
He had the confidence, the swagger and was one cocky mofo but you can't deny hitters were down right afraid of this guy when he was on the mound.
He obviously doesn't have the same stuff now but he can still be effective if he stayed healthy. |
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| ludawg23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by GTS3gEclipse
Wins shouldn't be a major stat? Show me a manager that will say "we didnt win enough games this year to make it to the playoffs, but at least we didnt give up too many runs this year." Winning is everything. When the end of the day comes, a win is a win regardless of how it happens and thats the only stat that determines whether u move on or not. Maybe thats why the Mets have problems making the playoffs, they still can't understand the concept that I need to WIN games to get there. |
We're talking about pitchers here where Wins can be a really miscontrued stat and doesn't indicate how great a pitcher really is.
ERA/WHIP is a much better indicator of how effective a pitcher can be. I can name you plenty of guys who have 15-20 win seasons but have very inflated ERAs. Yes, maybe they're decent pitchers with great run support but the whole Wins category is very deceiving. |
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| ludawg23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by steven-neil
'was the best' aint gonna win this world series, let's concentrate on 'is the best'...
The Yankees are still 'THE' best team in baseball due to the players that are still with us rather than the one's that didn't sign with us. |
it's way too early to be drinking. Let's get real here, the yankees are not the best team in the MLB. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by GTS3gEclipse
Wins shouldn't be a major stat? Show me a manager that will say "we didnt win enough games this year to make it to the playoffs, but at least we didnt give up too many runs this year." Winning is everything. When the end of the day comes, a win is a win regardless of how it happens and thats the only stat that determines whether u move on or not. Maybe thats why the Mets have problems making the playoffs, they still can't understand the concept that I need to WIN games to get there. |
that's ridiculous. when evaluating the performance of a team the win means everything. evaluating a pitcher, wins mean less than you think. As shamez said, a pitcher could let up one run in nine innings and still lose the game. It doesn't reflect on the pitchers performance as much as it reflects on the overall performance of both the offense and defense. let's say there were 3 errors that led to 2 unearned runs and a lose. The pitcher could have dominated, however, the error would result in a lose, and the runs would not show up in the ERA. How does that reflect on the pitchers performance? there is no possible way the pitcher can control every aspect of his performance. even if the pitcher struck out every batter faced, every batter has the opportunity to make it to first if the ball gets by the catcher.
when trying to evaluate the individual ability of the pitcher you have to eliminate as much as possible the team element embedded within the pitcher's stats. W is highly dependent on the offense because a pitcher can't win a game if the offense doesn't score at all. that's why WHIP is such a great stat; it relies on the defense which is the most consistent aspect of baseball. there is not as much diversity in defensive abilities, with obvious exceptions (ie., torii hunter, ichiro, etc...) |
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| steven-neil |
| quote: | Originally posted by ludawg23
it's way too early to be drinking. Let's get real here, the yankees are not the best team in the MLB. |
You're right..I was hammered drunk when I wrote that.. |
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| ludawg23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by steven-neil
You're right..I was hammered drunk when I wrote that.. |
haha touche steven, touche |
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| trunks1022 |
| quote: | Originally posted by steven-neil
You're right..I was hammered drunk when I wrote that.. |
lol |
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| trunks1022 |
| quote: | Originally posted by GTS3gEclipse
Maybe thats why the Mets have problems making the playoffs, they still can't understand the concept that I need to WIN games to get there. |
yankees don't seem to understand that IN the playoffs, they need good pitching as described by shamez, ludawg, and jerz to win... |
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| Shamez214 |
| quote: | Originally posted by GTS3gEclipse
Wins shouldn't be a major stat? Show me a manager that will say "we didnt win enough games this year to make it to the playoffs, but at least we didnt give up too many runs this year." Winning is everything. When the end of the day comes, a win is a win regardless of how it happens and thats the only stat that determines whether u move on or not. Maybe thats why the Mets have problems making the playoffs, they still can't understand the concept that I need to WIN games to get there. |
Seriously... do you know anything about baseball? I explained to you, in detail, why wins is NOT a good stat to judge a pitcher on. Jerz emphasized what I said.
Another example:
Pitcher A goes 6 innings, gives up 10 hits, 3 walks, a HBP and 7 runs. That is HORRIBLE. But the offense that pitcher A is on scored 12 runs. Pitcher A gets the win. Wins is half determined by how good a pitcher is and half determined by how good his teams offense is.
Basically what you're saying is that a pitcher who has a 5.00 ERA and 20 wins is better than a pitcher who has a 3.00 ERA and 5 wins.
Your arguments are ridiculous and you're actually making yourself look less and less knowledgeable with each post. :wtf: |
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