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Christianity and Astrotheology
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| {b.s.e.} |
Contrary to popular belief, there was no single man at the genesis of Christianity but many characters rolled into one. The majority of these characters were personifications of the ubiquitous solar myth, whose adventures were well known, as reflected in the stories of such popular deities as Mithra, Hercules, Dionysus and more throughout the Roman Empire and beyond. In reality, the story of Jesus as portrayed in the Gospels is nearly identical to that of the earlier saviour-gods Krishna and Horus/Osiris. These redeemer tales are similar not because they reflect the actual exploits of a variety of men who did and said identical things, but because they represent the same extremely ancient core of knowledge that revolved around the celestial bodies and natural forces.
that being said, the Holy Bible, or Helios Biblios or SUN BOOK, has been written and re-written, forged and reforged over the millenia. The very Gospel, being the only testament to the existence of Christ was written in Greece 180 years after his supposed stay on earth. The very life of Jesus Christ is an extrapolated story of a solar year as the Sun (Allegorically, Jesus) moves through the Zodiac's circle, which I shall explain accordingly:
1.According to legend, Jesus was born in a stable between a horse and a goat: the symbols of Sagittarius and Capricorn.
2. He was baptized in Aquarius, the "John the Baptist of the sky"
3. He chose his first disciples, fishermen, in Pisces, the sign of fishers.
4. He became the Good Shepherd and the Lamb in Aries: The Ram.
5.Jesus told the parales of the sowing and the tilling of the fields in Tuarus, the Bull.
6. In Cancer, "the Celestial Sea of Galilee", he calmed the storm and waters, spoke of backslides (the Crab) and rode the ass and foal in triumph into the City of peace, Jerusalem.
7. Jesus was the Lion, in Leo
8. In LIbra, CHrist was the true vine in the Garden of Gethsemane, the "wine press", as this is the time of grape harvest.
9. In Sagittarius, Jesus was wounded in the side by the Centaur, or centurion.
10. He was crucified at the winter soltice between the "two thieves" of Sagittarius and Capricorn, who sapped his strength.
if that is not enough for the average 'believer', i offer more evidence. AND FACT
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the character of Mithra, of Persia was founded hundreds, if not thousands of years before Christianity.
Mithra was born of a virgin on Dec. 25th in a cave, and his birth was attended by shepherds bearing gifts.
He was considered a great travelling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions, or disciples
His followers were promised immortality
He performed miracles
As the "great bull of the Sun" he sacrificed himself for world peace.
His ressurection was celebrated every year
He was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again
His sacred day was sunday, hundreds of years before christ *KEYWORD SUN?!*
Mithra had his prinipal festival on what was later to become Easter.
He was called "the Good Shepherd" and identified with both the Lamb and Lion
The cave of the Vatican belonged to Mithra until 376 AD when a city prefect suppresed the Cult of the rival Savior and seized the shrine in the name of Christ on the very birthday of the pagan god, the 25th of december.
how about Horus/Osiris? 3500 BC!!!!!
Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on the 25th of December, in a cave/manger.. his birth was announced by a star in the East and attended by 3 wise men.
His earthly father was named Seb (Joseph)
At age 12 he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30 he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years
He was baptized in the river Eridanus in Jordan by Anup the Baptizer
He had 12 Disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named Anup and Aan" ("the two JOhns")
Horus walked on water
He performed miracles
His personal epithet was "Iusa", "The Everbecoming Son" of "Ptah" the "Father", also called the Holy Child
He was crucified between two thieves
Je was also the "Way, The Truth the Ligh" the Messiah, God's Anointed Son, the Word Made Truth, etc
Horus was called "the KRST" or Announted One
Like Jesus, he was to reign for 1000 years.
Furthermore, inscribed about 3500 years ago on the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus. With Thoth announcing to the virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus, with Kneph the "holy ghost" impregnating the virgin; and with the infant being attended by 3 kings, or magi.
the three magi/wise men/kings, by the way, refer to the three stars in the belt of Orion, known as such.
Jesus CHrist represents the astrological age of pisces (which we currently reside in) aptly represented by the fish. Moses represented the age of Aries, the RAM, before him was the age of Taurus (the golden calf)
why do you think that there is no factual history of Jesus outside of the Bible? Because there isn't any. He didn't exist, he is an allegory for the Sun, which has been worshipped for thousands upon thousands of years, all over the world, at any given time.
Please tell me a few people are aware of this. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| so, did you do any fact-checking to establish whether what you are posting is accurate or did you just type out some of the nonsense you gleaned from that piece of film, zeitgeist? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
Zeitgeist Factual Review
HORUS
2. “Horus…the Solar Messiah”, 2:57. The Ancient Egyptians did not have the word or concept of a Savior or Messiah…the movie simply adds that word on for later relationship to Jesus.
3. “Metaphorically speaking, every morning Horus would win the battle against Set, while in the evening, Set would conquer Horus and send him into the underworld.” 3:10. This is not Ancient Egyptian mythology, but rather the product of Zeitgeist’s writers. Horus and Set were enemies, but there was no myth stating their battles were the daily cause of daylight and nighttime. “Metaphorically speaking” is the very nice way of saying this.
4. “Horus was born on December 25th…” 3:33. Incorrect. Horus’ birth was during the Egyptian month of “Khoiak”, which falls in what is now October and November.
5. “…of the virgin Isis Mary…” 3:36. Incorrect on both the name and her virginity status. In truth, Horus was born to Isis (the “Mary” seems to be added by Zeitgeist writers to make it sound like Jesus’ birth), the widow of Osiris. She used her deceased husband’s phallus and sperm to conceive Horus, but there is absolutely nothing about her being a virgin; her formerly being married to Osiris shows otherwise.
6. “…three kings followed to adorn the newborn Savior” 3:42. There is no evidence in any of the birth stories I’ve found for any kings visiting or adorning the child; in fact, Horus is born as a falcon and flies away. As we all know, it’s hard to catch a falcon to adorn it. It’s also worthy to point out…again…that the concept of a “Savior” was not part of Egyptian Mythology.
7. “…at the age of 12 he was a prodigal child teacher…” 3:47. He was quite a kid but I have found nothing about Horus as a “teacher” of anything, let alone at age 12.
8. “…at the age of 30 he was baptized…” 3:50. The Egyptians did not “Baptise” anyone. That term is obviously Christian and it’s application to Egyptian mythology is grossly misled. All of the information I can find about this also cites some of the above facts I’ve debunked as true, and I’ve found nothing to indicate Horus was dunked in water of any kind from any actual reputable source.
9. “…Horus had 12 disciples…”3:53. Horus had four disciples/ followers, not 12. They were called the “Heru-Shemsu” if you want to look it up.
10. “…(Horus) walked on water…” 3:57. Horus never walked on water. This appears to be nothing short of a Zeitgeist made piece of fiction.
11-15.“…known by many…names, such as ‘The Truth’, ‘The Light’, ‘God’s Anointed Son’, ‘The Good Shepherd’, ‘The Lamb of God’,…” 4:03. There is nothing in support of this anywhere. The Egyptians did not even have a “God” in the sense of a single god known by that title.
16. “…Horus was crucified…” 4:09. There was no such thing in Ancient Egypt. The civilization pre-dates crucifixion by over 1,500 years.
17. “…buried for 3 days and thus resurrected…” 4:11. Once again, there is no evidence for this claim. His father, Osiris, is resurrected by Horus’ actions in some myths, but Horus himself does not undergo this. Again, all online sources that support the Zeitgeist seem to have gotten their information from the movie.
MITHRA
31. “…Mithra, born of a virgin…” 5:07. Mithra actually sprang out of a rock in some traditions and ancient artworks, and none of the other myths provide any details of birth.
32. “…he had twelve disciples…” 5:09. Mithra was occasionally shown surrounded by the twelve signs of the Zodiac, which, as one might guess, are not actually disciples.
33-34. “…and upon his death was buried for three days and thus resurrected…” 5:11. Mithra never actually dies in any myth, and so was also never buried. The living don’t need resurrections either.
35-37. “…called ‘The Way’, ‘The Truth’, ‘The Light’…” 5:16. He was called “the warrior angel of light” in Iran, but that’s actually a completely different Mithra from the Roman one pictured in the movie and referenced with the twelve signs of the Zodiac. Go figure. |
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| {b.s.e.} |
nice debating skills!:clown: ...
i've seen zeitgeist, and i assume you have as well. it is a pretty good overview, but limited, being a movie. you then might realise i have more information than what was offered in the 35 minute-ish segment.
would you like references? sure.
the Christ Conspiracy, Archaya S.
The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of CHristianity, Hyam Maccaby
The Book the Church Doesn't Want You to Read, Kendell/Hunt
The World's 16 Crucified Saviours, Graves, Kersey
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as well, you might read up on the Gnostics. |
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| {b.s.e.} |
youre googling a review on zeitgeist.
if you had bothered doing any sort of legitimate research and apply some critical thinking, you'd know otherwise.
I just picked one point out of many to refute, or at least add an interesting side note.
mithra's rock is now peter's rock, in the vatican. mithra's ground and cult were annexed by the christians.
i have much more to say but its 6am. stay tuned. |
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| {b.s.e.} |
32. “…he had twelve disciples…” 5:09. Mithra was occasionally shown surrounded by the twelve signs of the Zodiac, which, as one might guess, are not actually disciples.
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it's all astrotheologic bull to pass on the ancient knowledge of astrology! knowledge that helped farmers plant and reap, etc. knowledge that was outlawed by the christians because it is the very undoing of it.
12 zodiacs? 12 disciples? you don't see a connection? allegorically speaking? lol, that's dense. the sun and its 12 zodiacs is exactly Jesus and his disciples.
his birth is celebrated literally 3 days at midnight from the solar equinox, the lowest point of the sun in the entire year. how much more clear could it be? anything short of denial is polite. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
youre googling a review on zeitgeist. |
no. i found it on the JREF forums
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
if you had bothered doing any sort of legitimate research and apply some critical thinking, you'd know otherwise. |
i did actually (tho not a great deal). but enough to see that it had issues. i might've put more time in researching how ty the "doco" really is, but you know, the part on 911 didn't give me too much patience with the rest of the material. truther fatigue you see ;)
it doesn't stack up to any decent documentary i have seen. the way the ideas and arguments are put forward is unconvincing and unprofessional.
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
i have much more to say but its 6am. stay tuned. |
well, don't bother just on my behalf. i dont feel like getting bogged down again with someone that thinks the film is in any way "good". feel free to search the forums for other zeitgeist threads.
there are so many real problems with the bible i dont see the point in creating fictitious ones. |
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| {b.s.e.} |
I should have known better than to bring this up on an internet forum.
You don't think Early Christians were Sun Worshippers? Take a look at any old temple, and it faces East. It's not peculiar that Sunday is considered the Lord's Day?
I wasn't defending Zeigeist, most of it was bull. However the research I've done, in contrast is fraught with references and additional research done by authors.
I never even made mention of the documentary.
One of the main differences between such 'mythos' as Mithra, Hercules, Zarathustra/Zoroaster, Dionysus, Krisha, Queztlcotal and the later sun-entity in Egypt Serapis is that they were never meant to be personalizations or histories, thus, their stories have been passed around and interpreted over and over again. While Christianity, on the other hand, has been personified and historicized, as if it really happened.
Your critique of Zeitgeist aside, you still aren't able to draw some startling comparisons between Jesus and the Sun? Or Jesus and Osiris(I have interchanged Osiris with Horus, as they both represent the Godhead/the Sun)? While there is always some skepticism and discrepancy, there is an astrologic amount of reseach done into more than just drawing comparisons between Christ Figures.
You cannot refute the virgin birth depicted on the Temple at Luxor, dated 3500 years B.C.E.
Let me make a few more points on solar imagery.
The sun "dies" for three days at the winter solstice, to be born again or resurrected on Dec. 25th
the sun of God is "born of a virgin", which refers to both the new or "virgin" moon and the constellation of Virgo
the sun's "birth" is attended by the "bright Star" either Sirius or Sothis, or the planet Vensus, and by the three wise men, representing the 3 stars in the constellation of Orion's belt, which point Sirius during this time of year.
The sun at its zenith, or 12 noon, is in the house or heavenly temple of the "Most High"; thus "he" begins "his Father's work" at "age 12". In ancient Egypt, they would offer prayer at noon to the 'Most High God'. Does this sink in at all?
The sun enters into each of the Zodiac at 30 degrees; hence beginning his work at 30, and explaining why there is no in between.
the sun "walks on water", referring to its reflection.
the sun is "betrayed" in the house of Scorpio, the "backbiter" in the season where its strength is sapped.
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the next bit is taken from Gerald Massey, who has research the common binds between Egyptian and Christian Myth for 30 years.
http://mysticalkeys.com/library/Massey/massey_lunio.htm
One type of the twins found in the lunar phenomena has been humanized in the story of Jesus and John; these can be traced back to Horus and Sut, who is Aan or Anup, the Egyptian John. These two appear in the Ritual as the "Precursor," and the one who is preferred to him who was first in coming. Speaking in the twin character, the Osirified deceased says, "I am Anup in the day of judgment. I am Horus, the Preferred, on the day of rising." Anup presided over the judgment; so John the Precursor proclaims the judgment; and calls the world to repentance. Jesus comes as the "preferred one" on the day of his rising up out of the waters, when John the Precursor says of Jesus, "After me cometh a man which is become before me!" John's was the voice of one crying in the wilderness, "Make ye ready the way of the Lord." "I make way," says Horus, "by what Anup (the Precursor) has done for me." The twin lunar characters of John and Jesus can be identified in the gospel where John says of Jesus "He must increase, but I must decrease." So the title of the Akkadian moon-god, Sin, as the increaser of light, is Enu-zu-na, the Lord of waxing. In the Mithraic mysteries the light one of the twins was designated the bridegroom, and in one passage we meet with the bridegroom and the bride, that is the lunar mother of the Twins and Christ as the bridegroom. John personates the dark one; like Sut-Anup, he is not the light itself, and only bears witness to the light. The Christ or Horus was consort to the mother-moon, and the reproducer of himself. John says of him, "He that hath the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom which standeth and heareth him rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice." These three, the bride, bridegroom, and John, are a perfect replica of the lunar Trinity.
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It's fact that Christianity was perpetuated as a unifier by the Roman Empire with the sword. Yet even Constantine, hailed as the first Christian Emperor, was actually a worshipper of the sungod 'Sol Invictus', whose image he placed on his coins, dedicated to "the invincible sun, my guardian".
I'll leave it at that for now. |
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| {b.s.e.} |
next you'll tell me that the Old Testament isn't polytheistic. there are hebrew temples with the zodiac inscribed on their floors.
i wasn't expecting such a lack of interest in the subject.
has a well-meaning documentary, albeit propaganda, ruined an entire field of research? |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
next you'll tell me that the Old Testament isn't polytheistic. there are hebrew temples with the zodiac inscribed on their floors.
i wasn't expecting such a lack of interest in the subject.
has a well-meaning documentary, albeit propaganda, ruined an entire field of research? |
Looks like it. This sub-forum doesn't exactly have the most intellectually open minded people. I was familiar with the subject well before Zeitgeist but if I were to say anything about it now it would automatically be associated with the movie and written off. I'd recommend finding other forums if you want to be able to openly discuss anything intellectually stimulating or interesting. |
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| Krypton |
If you guys want an intellectual debate, stop criticizing skepticism to your view points as something wrong with the forum. So someone doesn't agree with you; oh, the forum is full of close-minded people, OMG...:rolleyes:
If YOU were open-minded, you'de accept the proposition that you could be wrong, and so to prove to yourself you are not wrong, you should debate your skeptics (PKC), and leave out all the "you're so close-minded" bull....:) |
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