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McCain's VP pick (pg. 18)
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj Smitty20
I find your view on our "capitalist society" very disturbing. So, once you get to a certain tax bracket, it's ok not to care about anyone else anymore? Canadian society is becoming increasingly selfish and individualistic and people like are the reason. You can't look beyond your cheque book and how much taxes you pay. It's really sad to see that people can't look beyond that anymore. |
You have such an incredible gift at misconstruing other people's words, I am amazed. You completly accuse people of stuff, they have not said, or do not mean. Read again:
| quote: | | But what I am saying is that they are no less entitled to keep their money. |
| quote: | | Nobody is less entitled to their money |
| quote: | | you are forgetting that they are ALREADY paying more in that progressive tax system. |
| quote: | | I do agree with the progressive tax system. |
Geez. In those three degrees, did you ever learn to consider the other side of the argument? Stop accusing people of things. Read what they are writing. Stop calling people names. Stop giving people labels. And for god sakes please read: With Good Reason . Your arguments will make a lot more sense when you stop degrading others with your labels. |
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| Dj Smitty20 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
You have such an incredible gift at misconstruing other people's words, I am amazed. You completly accuse people of stuff, they have not said, or do not mean. Read again:
Geez. In those three degrees, did you ever learn to consider the other side of the argument? Stop accusing people of things. Read what they are writing. Stop calling people names. Stop giving people labels. And for god sakes please read: With Good Reason . Your arguments will make a lot more sense when you stop degrading others with your labels. |
Dude, your posts had an obvious tone of elitism that I just had to expose. Poking fun at education and wages just takes the cake. I might be stubborn, but I also don't feel the need to point out how rich and well off I am or how hard I've worked.
I'm quite familiar with the "other side" of the argument when it comes to politics. I have been voting for close to ten years and I do not agree with the principles of right wing politics. I don't understand what's wrong with using "labels". How else do you propose that we define our political system? |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj Smitty20
I also don't feel the need to point out how rich and well off I am or how hard I've worked.
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You just pointed out that you have 3 degrees and will clear six figures. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by DannyPINK
I don't understand the idea of lowering taxes when the government is bleeding billions of dollars each month on the war alone. |
And they're bleeding billions of dollars each month on social programs, too. The thing is, governments are the only entities with the authority and ability to run military operations, whereas the private sector is perfectly capable of taking on most of the other things that governments piss away taxpayer money on.
Anyway, lowering the tax rate doesn't necessarily lower tax revenues by the same amount - people may spend that money anyway, or they may invest it at a high rate of return and end up paying more taxes at the end of the day. If you want to talk about economics then you have to be able to consider long-term effects of a policy and not just the immediate result.
| quote: | | If the top 5% has a problem with paying a little extra then they can really go themselves. It's as simple as that. |
Yes, real simple. Whenever you don't actually have a case to make, just tell people to go themselves. Those top 5% usually aren't spending the extra 50 million on fancy cars, they're investing it in areas that provide income and jobs for other people. Some of them even give to charity!
You do realize that the super-rich hardly pay any taxes at all, right? When you have that much money to throw around, it's ridiculously easy to find tax shelters. You own a few dozen corporations and trust funds and expense everything and make it look like you actually had no personal income at all. Inflated rates in the upper tax brackets only prevent the middle class from "moving up" in times of inflation.
| quote: | | And Sarah Palin (to get back on topic) is a dumb bitch from podunk Alaska |
Is that your scientific assessment?
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
I had to laugh when McCain couldn't answer a reporter's question about how many houses he had. |
It is funny - I admit it - but the Obama campaigners are dreaming if they think that the number of houses McCain owns is somehow going to affect the election. Everybody knows you have to be pretty wealthy to run for prez.
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
You just pointed out that you have 3 degrees and will clear six figures. |
Maybe if he stopped pissing away money and time on school and got a ing job, he might have a little more earning potential. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by DannyPINK
Barack Obama came from the same beginnings as a lot of people in this country who are trying to do better than the previous generation. |
So did Bill Gates, Tom Cruise, François Pinault, John D. Rockefeller, Steve Jobs, Ralph Lauren, and Eminem. What's your point exactly?
(I thought this one deserved a separate reply, because it was just that ridiculous) |
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| Spam |
| quote: | | I find your view on our "capitalist society" very disturbing. So, once you get to a certain tax bracket, it's ok not to care about anyone else anymore? Canadian society is becoming increasingly selfish and individualistic and people like are the reason. You can't look beyond your cheque book and how much taxes you pay. It's really sad to see that people can't look beyond that anymore. |
People that accuse rich people of 'not caring about others' just because they actually want to keep the money they earn should put THEIR money where their mouth is, take THEIR tax-breaks, and give it away to a noble cause they support. NO ONE should be forced to pay for government-run social programs that do little else but allow lazy people to get by on the working-man's dollar.
I know a family in Hamilton where both parents are on 'disabilities' pay, one parent is on welfare, the father does landscaping jobs for extra cash that isn't claimed for taxes, they don't pay GST because they're status indians, and they go and piss their money away in the Bingo hall every night. I know another family that makes more money than MY parents, yet they live in co-op housing. They don't need that type of support, if my parents can get by on LESS, how the hell do they get to claim that they need government support? Because they don't know how to say 'no' the big-screen TV and new cars they can't afford? If one family like that exists (and I already know TWO), thousands more do too, and you know why it pisses me off? Because they're living off of OUR tax-dollars. And generally, it's politicians on the left that support these types of expenses.
When people (not even just rich people, hell it pisses me off, and I'm far from rich) see these types of actions, it proves that millions of dollars of our money are being pissed away on people who don't deserve it, and we want that money BACK. You know why *I* want that money back? Because the X number of dollars that the government wastes to support these lazy s could be much better used by MYSELF to help out a family-in-need that I know and trust, or support a cause I wholeheartedly support.
Aside from that, we have an education system that needs fixing, a health-care system that needs fixing, an underfunded military, an infrastructure 'crisis' looming, etc. etc. etc. And Liberal politicians want to create social daycare and other publicly-funded programs to piss away even more of our money!?
Before they raise taxes on the upper-class who, I wholeheartedly agree, CAN afford it. I want to see the government spend our money WISELY. What one can not do with 10 dollars, one surely will not do with 100 dollars either, sure, the 100 bucks goes further than 10, but does it really fix the problem? |
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| KaiLee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj Smitty20
You're basing this on what, exactly?
Have you actually looked at Obama's tax plan? I'll break it down for you.
The only people's taxes who will go up are those who make over $250,000 annually. How many of us here make that? How many Americans make that per year? About five percent, to be exact. Do you know how much people's taxes will go up who make between 250,000 and 600,000 per year? About twelve dollars.
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My father earns $250,000 a year but he happened to spend the majority of his life busting his ass to make that much. He isn't the top 1% earner in his company nor is he greedy. He also spends most of his time travelling, on the phone until 11pm and in meetings to the point of exhaustion from working so hard so he has a comfortable retirement for my mother and I and could provide his kids with a great life since he didn't have that. Is it really fair to give higher taxes to my dad who's worked as hard as someone else who makes less money just because his salary is higher?
What about doctors who are still in debt from school who make that much? A doctorate loan can cost up to $150,000 and I don't think that's going to be paid overnight. The average debt for a college graduate has soared 50% in the past decade. Just because that doctor gets a high salary he gets a nice slap in the face with higher taxes? |
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| KaiLee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
Re. Taxes: Unfortunately tax relief has an immediate, quantifiable benefit to Americans, and that gets votes rather than a policy that takes your money and promises to spend it on certain social benefits that can't really be measured. A tax cut is money in pocket and boy do americans need it right now. |
You summed it up quite nicely :) |
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| Dj Smitty20 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
You just pointed out that you have 3 degrees and will clear six figures. |
um...yeah in response to being berated with how hard he's worked, how much money he earns, how he doesn't want to pay taxes, etc. context you know? |
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| Dj Smitty20 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
People that accuse rich people of 'not caring about others' just because they actually want to keep the money they earn should put THEIR money where their mouth is, take THEIR tax-breaks, and give it away to a noble cause they support. NO ONE should be forced to pay for government-run social programs that do little else but allow lazy people to get by on the working-man's dollar.
I know a family in Hamilton where both parents are on 'disabilities' pay, one parent is on welfare, the father does landscaping jobs for extra cash that isn't claimed for taxes, they don't pay GST because they're status indians, and they go and piss their money away in the Bingo hall every night. I know another family that makes more money than MY parents, yet they live in co-op housing. They don't need that type of support, if my parents can get by on LESS, how the hell do they get to claim that they need government support? Because they don't know how to say 'no' the big-screen TV and new cars they can't afford? If one family like that exists (and I already know TWO), thousands more do too, and you know why it pisses me off? Because they're living off of OUR tax-dollars. And generally, it's politicians on the left that support these types of expenses.
When people (not even just rich people, hell it pisses me off, and I'm far from rich) see these types of actions, it proves that millions of dollars of our money are being pissed away on people who don't deserve it, and we want that money BACK. You know why *I* want that money back? Because the X number of dollars that the government wastes to support these lazy s could be much better used by MYSELF to help out a family-in-need that I know and trust, or support a cause I wholeheartedly support.
Aside from that, we have an education system that needs fixing, a health-care system that needs fixing, an underfunded military, an infrastructure 'crisis' looming, etc. etc. etc. And Liberal politicians want to create social daycare and other publicly-funded programs to piss away even more of our money!?
Before they raise taxes on the upper-class who, I wholeheartedly agree, CAN afford it. I want to see the government spend our money WISELY. What one can not do with 10 dollars, one surely will not do with 100 dollars either, sure, the 100 bucks goes further than 10, but does it really fix the problem? |
Dude, you make a lot of points that I agree with here. There are problems with the system and people do get away with a lot of while people who truly need assistance sometimes get ed. I've seen it with my own eyes. Here's a great example. My friend in high school was from Lebanon and his parents and his sisters (6 people in total) emigrated to Canada, where they were put on social assistance in government housing, etc. So then when we're in first year, I find out that his dad goes over on "business" to England and that he had "operations" in London and Toronto. Basically, the guy is a ing crook and getting government subsidies for his family. Plus, my friend got nearly $9,000 in OSAP, even though he wasn't born here, while I was turned down because my mom made "too much money". I was able to get a bank loan to pay my first year's tuition but government assistance going to an immigrant over say, someone born here into a working class family...it's not right and what his dad did was a blatant system-. Who knows what he's up to now?
I also have major issues with our Native policy, for example, but I'd rather not get into that. I think we aren't tough enough on crime and sexual offenders in this country as well. I would rather see welfare to work programs as opposed to handouts. I've seen apartments full of welfare losers who collect their cheques every two weeks or whatever and go buy booze and drink all weekend on their patios or balconies. That element is always going to be there. But despite that, I still can't vote Conservative, because their message is just too individualistic and "fend for yourself". |
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| Dj Smitty20 |
| quote: | Originally posted by KaiLee
My father earns $250,000 a year but he happened to spend the majority of his life busting his ass to make that much. He isn't the top 1% earner in his company nor is he greedy. He also spends most of his time travelling, on the phone until 11pm and in meetings to the point of exhaustion from working so hard so he has a comfortable retirement for my mother and I and could provide his kids with a great life since he didn't have that. Is it really fair to give higher taxes to my dad who's worked as hard as someone else who makes less money just because his salary is higher?
What about doctors who are still in debt from school who make that much? A doctorate loan can cost up to $150,000 and I don't think that's going to be paid overnight. The average debt for a college graduate has soared 50% in the past decade. Just because that doctor gets a high salary he gets a nice slap in the face with higher taxes? |
Well that's a nice story about your dad, but yeah, I think he can continue to pay the taxes he's paying and doesn't deserve a break actually. Why should he get a break when nobody else is getting one at the moment? The last eight years someone like your dad in the US HAS been getting tax breaks. It's time for the handouts to go to the people who are really hurting and if your dad makes a quarter of a million dollars, he isn't hurting. No sympathy from me here.
Why are you talking about lowering taxes but then also complaining about education debt? I am currently in a heap of student debt that will probably take me at least the next decade to pay off. You want more funding for education? Well that funding comes from tax dollars.
Interesting point about doctors...but since we have a shortage of doctors in Canada right now and most of them are leaving to the US fo higher salaries, then we SHOULD be giving tax breaks to doctors and helping them pay off their loans. That only makes sense, right? Doctors provide an essential service and we dont' have enough of them right now. But we do have enough lawyers and businessmen already getting enough tax breaks and they don't need any more. |
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| KaiLee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj Smitty20
Well that's a nice story about your dad, but yeah, I think he can continue to pay the taxes he's paying and doesn't deserve a break actually. Why should he get a break when nobody else is getting one at the moment? The last eight years someone like your dad in the US HAS been getting tax breaks. It's time for the handouts to go to the people who are really hurting and if your dad makes a quarter of a million dollars, he isn't hurting. No sympathy from me here.
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Why do you feel the need to twist around words? Does it help you feel better since the point you are making is obviously ridiculous?
I never said my father should get a tax break. I said he shouldn't be getting taxed higher because of his income. He worked his ass off to get where he is and how is it fair that he gets taxed higher and someone who makes $240,000 doesn't? I could care less whether or not you sympathize him. He doesn't need any sympathy he works hard because he knows that's how you get anywhere in this world.
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj Smitty20
Interesting point about doctors...but since we have a shortage of doctors in Canada right now and most of them are leaving to the US fo higher salaries, then we SHOULD be giving tax breaks to doctors and helping them pay off their loans. That only makes sense, right? Doctors provide an essential service and we dont' have enough of them right now. But we do have enough lawyers and businessmen already getting enough tax breaks and they don't need any more. |
Many doctors entering the field in US make over $250,000 so how is it fair that they get taxed higher when they're in a pile of student debts? With Obama's little plan they most certainly would and if he wants to instill this medical system for everyone then the US will need all of the doctors they can get so I don't think higher taxes because on their salaries is going to attract them. |
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