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Review: Minitek Festival (pg. 13)
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View this Thread in Original format
| yankeeBaby |
| quote: | Originally posted by beema
yes because it could've easily been a free event with that lineup :rolleyes:
you people have any idea how much it costs to book, fly out, and put all those DJ's up in hotels? Hawtin alone would break the ing bank.
I agree that the apology was a bit of a cop out in some points, but whatever... people need to get over it already. |
+1, especially when they paid for it out-of-pocket. :rolleyes: |
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| Konijn |
| quote: | Originally posted by beema
yes because it could've easily been a free event with that lineup :rolleyes:
you people have any idea how much it costs to book, fly out, and put all those DJ's up in hotels? Hawtin alone would break the ing bank.
I agree that the apology was a bit of a cop out in some points, but whatever... people need to get over it already. |
no one said they expected a free event with that lineup; it was just said the event management -- and the "at least i tried my darndest" excuses -- was akin to one. i'm over it: it's the (rightfully) irate mooks who came in from out of town who aren't.
| quote: | Originally posted by yankeeBaby
+1, especially when they paid for it out-of-pocket. :rolleyes: |
the few thousand tickets they sold might have covered a fraction of the overhead... |
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| djquick83 |
| quote: | Originally posted by beema
yes because it could've easily been a free event with that lineup :rolleyes:
you people have any idea how much it costs to book, fly out, and put all those DJ's up in hotels? Hawtin alone would break the ing bank.
I agree that the apology was a bit of a cop out in some points, but whatever... people need to get over it already. |
Yes, if the event happened as planned, you could say it was worth the money. Last I checked, u had one venue closed down early, party moved to a diff venue same nite, late kickoff of the party at Coney island which then ended earlier as well with a wrap up at Studio B. Basically, the hightlight of the weekend was that video of the bus someone posted on the way to Studio B. Sorry to say, thats pretty sad given what the expectations were and what was offered. But whatever, its over and done with. Glad u guys had fun while it lasted though. Look forward to the next one in 2009. :crazy: |
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| get nyce |
i wasn't at the event or anything, i just find it very discrediting for him to say the internet was down so that prevented them from communicating the changes, plus with all the out-of-pocket money he/them spent, you'd think there would be a larger organizational group to help facilitate the event AND communication to the patrons.
a post to a forum on a blackberry can be done anywhere and if you're running an event of this magnitude, you'd think someone would have access to a blackberry or treo at the very least. |
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| elFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by beema
yes because it could've easily been a free event with that lineup :rolleyes:
you people have any idea how much it costs to book, fly out, and put all those DJ's up in hotels? Hawtin alone would break the ing bank.
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it didn't cost that much, because no one got paid;) |
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| beema |
| quote: | Originally posted by elFreak
it didn't cost that much, because no one got paid;) |
Well I do know a few of the DJ's didn't get paid, last time I talked to them anyways, but I'm fairly certain all the big ones did. You can't just book Richie Hawtin or Magda or Audion without dishing out some major dough in advance.
I would agree on the point about the internet, as far as communication anyways. But I do have a friend who worked on the Minitek site and well... he has his own frustrating story he related about having to update the information last minute on Saturday. Coney island is a wifi dead zone as you might imagine. It's a dead zone for a lot of things. |
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| DJ Eco |
| quote: | Originally posted by yankeeBaby
+1, especially when they paid for it out-of-pocket. :rolleyes: |
I heard half the lineup didn't even get paid in full. The sound crew never got paid in full and so the second stage was left untouched for a while (yes, they say they were short-staffed, but maybe that's because they brought half their crew, since they got half-paid)... A bunch of the DJs were left on their own to get to the airport/get home, in a city they've never been to, on top of many not getting paid. And then on top of it all, most of the sets that were recorded and released were against their contracts/agreements (and DJs are VERY VERY VERY touchy about that)... I'm sorry, but that makes waves that many of you don't know. The next time a New York promoter goes after some of these guys, they and their agents are left with a very sour taste in their mouths about coming back. Those are some of the problems behind the scenes that are more to worry about than the long lines, lateness, etc., in my opinion. Of course, I'm not behind the scenes, but these are very credible rumors floating around, and it's not random joe-schmo's making them up, it's people in the know, and people connected to the agents, DJs, etc. |
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| DJ Eco |
| However, on a completely other note... Given the financial downturn this economy took over the weekend, the negative points of the festival obviously need to be taken with a grain of salt. A lot worse could be happening to us (hurricanes, financial ruin) this week that a failed festival should be (and is) the least of our concerns. Just clarifying, so as not to seem so personally involved in the discussion of the festival... Just passing the time discussing it. |
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| fotoaddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by beema
I would agree on the point about the internet, as far as communication anyways. But I do have a friend who worked on the Minitek site and well... he has his own frustrating story he related about having to update the information last minute on Saturday. Coney island is a wifi dead zone as you might imagine. It's a dead zone for a lot of things. |
Their blog is wordpress 2.6.. There's an iPhone app that will post directly without wifi.. Coney Island had strangely good Edge coverage.. I'd bet at least 200 iPhones in that crowd.
Depending on wifi for anything was a mistake. Not knowing how to work around the problems was a bigger mistake though.. They needed a techno MacGyver..
Having read through most of the posts available at this point, and having seen the backstage to most of the major NY events (and some Toronto, Miami, ... ones) in the past 3 years.. Here, my thoughts: (in no particular order..)
1.. They were short on cash.. This event could have taken in roughly 750 x 25 (fri night) + 750 x 25 (sat night) + 4000 x 75 (sat/sun day + weekend passes) = 337500 roughly.. optimistically.. accounting a bit for the ticket fees and other costs to selling the tickets.. On that basis, and given the lineup, I'm going to guess conservatively 100k for djs, 30k for sound for all the venues (and this obviously wasn't the highest bidding sound!), maybe 10k for security at coney both days, 10k for coney rental, 5k for tents.. night venues may be no cost, with some form of bar guarantee.. So that's 155k spent, before the doors open, and I'm pretty sure I'm low. Also.. Any internet sales revenue is generally held until the event is over (to deal with the possibility of an event cancelation, or refund demands..) So that 155k would have come out of pocket.. and doesn't count the bar, or any staff (they SHOULD have had!) for the day of the events.. Nor any bracelet fees, internet connections, ... everything adds up, and when the hits the fan during an event, cash is the only thing that solves problems.. (besides maybe a dedicated staff who's been through dozens of shows with you in the past, and trust they'll get paid) I'd bet that Saturday day, the bar money was needed to pay other expenses on the spot.. Just a hunch.
2.. Radios.. You can't be everywhere, and without radios you can't talk to the people you need to give them instructions without them.. maybe nextel if you've got that, but cell phones are a big no when there's loud music.. I didn't see radios Saturday except for security. .they may have had them sunday, not sure..
3.. Staff.. with a potential for 5k people, a "staff" of 6, plus a bevy of volunteers (of which 25+ didn't show) won't cut it. If there weren't at least 100 paid staff for the PVD @ Pier 54 event, I'd be surprised.. Those hundred lead by 10-15 managers all with radios in constant communication.. And lets not forget specific staff & security to keep a tight eye on cash, preferably in a single location. And figure 15-20 per hr at least for staff..
4.. A 3 day multi site show needs multiple shifts of folks working.. 20 or so hours in, people fall apart.. Being in charge of a certifiable mess for that long can cause a heart attack, even if you're sober.. So this comes back to staff, and having folks on site hours before an event starts.. Again, for the PVD show, they started setup something like 36 hrs before doors opened. A lot has to happen.. and there must be a schedule, blocking out what happens when, that has buffer for the things that go wrong. Each site needed someone in charge, available from 6 hrs before doors open till 3 hrs after doors close. Everyone must know who that person in charge is, or at least who's above them in the chain of command.
5.. Sound.. Hate to say it, but loud sound is not the same as good sound.. I can't attest to if these guys knew what they were doing, or not, but I can say... They didn't do a sound check for either stage.. And by sound check, I mean to tune the system to the environment. The EQs for both stages were flat both days.. I have photos.. It could be a timing thing for the first day, but I'm not sure. Also, there were cables spliced together on site with electrical tape and milk crates covering the connections to protect them. There was a power strip for something in the second sound tent protected by a stick.. Lets hope that wasn't important, though someone did use it to charge their cell phone. And as for the second stage.. I first heard it started late because of a lack of power.. then due to a lack of needles, then because the sound guys were holding out for payment in full.. either way that's bad on the sound guys fault, and I'd strongly recommend everyone stay away from them going forward.. Oh and recording the shows + publishing them online without permission.. Not professional, and probably a contract violation with the artists at a minimum.
6.. Bar.. outsource it.. Yes, it's a tempting revenue stream.. but yikes it comes with a lot of hassle. Checking ids, not running out of beer, water, booze, mixers, ... get someone who does bar stuff every day of their lives to just "own it" and cut you in on the deal.. they'll get the staff for ids, bartenders, cash takers, vans for transport, ... and it's done. Having the promoter take ticket money is not a good use of time.
7.. DJs.. there sure were a lot of them.. who was taking care of them? managing the artists needs is a job in itself depending on the artist.. but across 50 names and 3 days, that's probably 3-5 people's worth of work the days of just to shuttle, feed, get through security, babysit, ... that needs to happen for things to be smooth..
8.. Lights.. ouch, going from the darkness to looking into those Coney island spot lights was blinding.. let alone seeing djs trying to spin vinyl in the dark..
9.. Wristbands... Ok, neat idea, but no.. neat should not be mixed with "first attempt at a multi thousand person festival".. (nor SECOND attempt, if such an event happens..) Depending on internet access in 3 locations, needing computers to work, ... all to be bleeding edge is just asking for trouble. And at the very least, there should have been a backup plan ahead of time with 5 bracelets (1 all weekend, fri night, sat day, sat night, sun day) where the person got ALL their bracelets at checkin, so nobody had to check in twice. Also, that $3 fee was crap, they weren't reusable so a refundable deposit goes up there with rebates, and I hate f'in rebates. You never want to make people wait to get in.. best case you lose bar revenue, worst they riot and demand refunds.. not good.
10.. 10pm cutoff.. I can't think of anything amplified in my life that's gone past this cutoff, especially in view of thousands of apartments.. Not sure how this was missed, but those permits should have been had way in advance.. Made announced 5 hrs special bit for PVD weeks before the show, so they must have had better than 99% proof that it was ok in writing or it wouldn't have been announced. "Day of permits only", I don't know anything that happens day of in NYC, especially on the weekend..
11.. Microphones.. You've got to be able to talk to the crowd for announcements and such.. Have at least 1 per stage.. or have a MacGyver type on hand who knows you can use headphones as a mic in a pinch.
12.. Printer.. You're going to need signs.. hand written notes are crap.. Have a printer, with paper and a laptop on site.. for bar price lists, PRESS, VIP, Will-Call, ... signs at the door.. and have the printer ready for any new signs you need on the spot.. Like a sign at all the exits telling where the after party is.. with address and possible subway directions.. 5 or so signs put up during the shows could have solved 90% of the confusion the crowd was having..
13.. Internet updates.. They had a blog, and people had phones.. someone should have updated a few websites on friday and saturday with night event info.. no excuses.. and yes, there's the iphone app, that could have done it from the sites..
And so I'm not a complete a-hole.. Some good things..
1.. In/out passes for everyone @ Day shows.. definitely helps that people can leave, look around coney island, get outside water when the bar's out, ...
2.. The lineup.. Ambitious and pretty freaking awesome..
3.. Having an event outdoors longer than the 4 hr norm..
4.. Varying venues for a multi day event.. I didn't make it to all, and can't speak to friday night's mess. but a Rebel - CI - Studio B - CI - Cielo was a pretty interesting flow, especially for any out of towners..
5. A bar with alcohol (not just beer)!
6. Ample bathrooms.. probably even enough if 2x as many folks showed..
All in, I had a good time.. I'd like to see more of these events yet realize they're incredibly complex to pull off.. You won't see me doing it anytime, and I now understand why none of the larger more established promoters have gone far into the multi day events in NYC.. New York is finicky, doesn't like to buy tickets in advance, and will totally bail if the weather turns south.. And given the weather can't be controlled (or insured? ) it may not be possible to have an event like this with the likely result of at least breaking even.. Please take my above list and factor that into future events.. If you don't have your existing bases + the points I've covered, don't throw another event.. You'd be asking for more trouble. But if you can get the things right from Minitek'08, and add in solutions to the 13 points above, and have enough cash to cover all of the expenses up front even if NOBODY walks through the door.. then.. just maybe.. we'll all come back, bring our friends, you'll make your money back, have a kick ass party and get credit for succeeding where soo many others have failed.. but no fancy stuff.. m'kay?
(I speak for absolutely no one with the above words. No one I've taken pictures of, for, or in spite of.. I am a problem solver by profession, with a bit of a photographic memory, and a fundamental desire to help.. If my words can help someone not have these problems, not get into a situation where these problems could happen, or otherwise sleep better at night, then the 20 minutes I've just spent are well worth it.. )
Cheers,
Peter |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Keryn
I can't even imagine the monetary hole these people are in at this point. Point blank they bit off far more than they could chew. |
I couldn't agree more. We were at a wedding, but if in town, we'd have gone. It sucks that the failure of this event (given comments on credit card cancellations, etc.) very well could end their minimoo parties this year. It's not like the economy's doing all that well, so losing tremendous amounts of money doesn't help.
Bottom line - they bit off more than they could chew and I wish they'd have stuck to smaller bi-weekly undergrounds all year.
And no, I don't think that this was ever a money-making venture. I do think that they do it because they want to spread what they like and their events are usually a bargain for us. I'm on the minimoo list, even though we've attended fewer parties than I'd like, but I've never felt ripped off. BTW, I think that 100K for the lineup was incredibly conservative. These two lost their shirts on this event and the bottom line is that it will negatively affect future events in NYC.
Oh, and to fotoaddict's comment about the sound, while I didn't hear it, minimoo is known for too loud, not balanced enough. Sven Vath did a guest set that I heard was intolerable. |
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| sayang |
| quote: | Originally posted by fotoaddict
Their blog is wordpress 2.6.. There's an iPhone app that will post directly without wifi.. Coney Island had strangely good Edge coverage.. I'd bet at least 200 iPhones in that crowd.
Depending on wifi for anything was a mistake. Not knowing how to work around the problems was a bigger mistake though.. They needed a techno MacGyver..
Having read through most of the posts available at this point, and having seen the backstage to most of the major NY events (and some Toronto, Miami, ... ones) in the past 3 years.. Here, my thoughts: (in no particular order..)
1.. They were short on cash.. This event could have taken in roughly 750 x 25 (fri night) + 750 x 25 (sat night) + 4000 x 75 (sat/sun day + weekend passes) = 337500 roughly.. optimistically.. accounting a bit for the ticket fees and other costs to selling the tickets.. On that basis, and given the lineup, I'm going to guess conservatively 100k for djs, 30k for sound for all the venues (and this obviously wasn't the highest bidding sound!), maybe 10k for security at coney both days, 10k for coney rental, 5k for tents.. night venues may be no cost, with some form of bar guarantee.. So that's 155k spent, before the doors open, and I'm pretty sure I'm low. Also.. Any internet sales revenue is generally held until the event is over (to deal with the possibility of an event cancelation, or refund demands..) So that 155k would have come out of pocket.. and doesn't count the bar, or any staff (they SHOULD have had!) for the day of the events.. Nor any bracelet fees, internet connections, ... everything adds up, and when the hits the fan during an event, cash is the only thing that solves problems.. (besides maybe a dedicated staff who's been through dozens of shows with you in the past, and trust they'll get paid) I'd bet that Saturday day, the bar money was needed to pay other expenses on the spot.. Just a hunch.
2.. Radios.. You can't be everywhere, and without radios you can't talk to the people you need to give them instructions without them.. maybe nextel if you've got that, but cell phones are a big no when there's loud music.. I didn't see radios Saturday except for security. .they may have had them sunday, not sure..
3.. Staff.. with a potential for 5k people, a "staff" of 6, plus a bevy of volunteers (of which 25+ didn't show) won't cut it. If there weren't at least 100 paid staff for the PVD @ Pier 54 event, I'd be surprised.. Those hundred lead by 10-15 managers all with radios in constant communication.. And lets not forget specific staff & security to keep a tight eye on cash, preferably in a single location. And figure 15-20 per hr at least for staff..
4.. A 3 day multi site show needs multiple shifts of folks working.. 20 or so hours in, people fall apart.. Being in charge of a certifiable mess for that long can cause a heart attack, even if you're sober.. So this comes back to staff, and having folks on site hours before an event starts.. Again, for the PVD show, they started setup something like 36 hrs before doors opened. A lot has to happen.. and there must be a schedule, blocking out what happens when, that has buffer for the things that go wrong. Each site needed someone in charge, available from 6 hrs before doors open till 3 hrs after doors close. Everyone must know who that person in charge is, or at least who's above them in the chain of command.
5.. Sound.. Hate to say it, but loud sound is not the same as good sound.. I can't attest to if these guys knew what they were doing, or not, but I can say... They didn't do a sound check for either stage.. And by sound check, I mean to tune the system to the environment. The EQs for both stages were flat both days.. I have photos.. It could be a timing thing for the first day, but I'm not sure. Also, there were cables spliced together on site with electrical tape and milk crates covering the connections to protect them. There was a power strip for something in the second sound tent protected by a stick.. Lets hope that wasn't important, though someone did use it to charge their cell phone. And as for the second stage.. I first heard it started late because of a lack of power.. then due to a lack of needles, then because the sound guys were holding out for payment in full.. either way that's bad on the sound guys fault, and I'd strongly recommend everyone stay away from them going forward.. Oh and recording the shows + publishing them online without permission.. Not professional, and probably a contract violation with the artists at a minimum.
6.. Bar.. outsource it.. Yes, it's a tempting revenue stream.. but yikes it comes with a lot of hassle. Checking ids, not running out of beer, water, booze, mixers, ... get someone who does bar stuff every day of their lives to just "own it" and cut you in on the deal.. they'll get the staff for ids, bartenders, cash takers, vans for transport, ... and it's done. Having the promoter take ticket money is not a good use of time.
7.. DJs.. there sure were a lot of them.. who was taking care of them? managing the artists needs is a job in itself depending on the artist.. but across 50 names and 3 days, that's probably 3-5 people's worth of work the days of just to shuttle, feed, get through security, babysit, ... that needs to happen for things to be smooth..
8.. Lights.. ouch, going from the darkness to looking into those Coney island spot lights was blinding.. let alone seeing djs trying to spin vinyl in the dark..
9.. Wristbands... Ok, neat idea, but no.. neat should not be mixed with "first attempt at a multi thousand person festival".. (nor SECOND attempt, if such an event happens..) Depending on internet access in 3 locations, needing computers to work, ... all to be bleeding edge is just asking for trouble. And at the very least, there should have been a backup plan ahead of time with 5 bracelets (1 all weekend, fri night, sat day, sat night, sun day) where the person got ALL their bracelets at checkin, so nobody had to check in twice. Also, that $3 fee was crap, they weren't reusable so a refundable deposit goes up there with rebates, and I hate f'in rebates. You never want to make people wait to get in.. best case you lose bar revenue, worst they riot and demand refunds.. not good.
10.. 10pm cutoff.. I can't think of anything amplified in my life that's gone past this cutoff, especially in view of thousands of apartments.. Not sure how this was missed, but those permits should have been had way in advance.. Made announced 5 hrs special bit for PVD weeks before the show, so they must have had better than 99% proof that it was ok in writing or it wouldn't have been announced. "Day of permits only", I don't know anything that happens day of in NYC, especially on the weekend..
11.. Microphones.. You've got to be able to talk to the crowd for announcements and such.. Have at least 1 per stage.. or have a MacGyver type on hand who knows you can use headphones as a mic in a pinch.
12.. Printer.. You're going to need signs.. hand written notes are crap.. Have a printer, with paper and a laptop on site.. for bar price lists, PRESS, VIP, Will-Call, ... signs at the door.. and have the printer ready for any new signs you need on the spot.. Like a sign at all the exits telling where the after party is.. with address and possible subway directions.. 5 or so signs put up during the shows could have solved 90% of the confusion the crowd was having..
13.. Internet updates.. They had a blog, and people had phones.. someone should have updated a few websites on friday and saturday with night event info.. no excuses.. and yes, there's the iphone app, that could have done it from the sites..
And so I'm not a complete a-hole.. Some good things..
1.. In/out passes for everyone @ Day shows.. definitely helps that people can leave, look around coney island, get outside water when the bar's out, ...
2.. The lineup.. Ambitious and pretty freaking awesome..
3.. Having an event outdoors longer than the 4 hr norm..
4.. Varying venues for a multi day event.. I didn't make it to all, and can't speak to friday night's mess. but a Rebel - CI - Studio B - CI - Cielo was a pretty interesting flow, especially for any out of towners..
5. A bar with alcohol (not just beer)!
6. Ample bathrooms.. probably even enough if 2x as many folks showed..
All in, I had a good time.. I'd like to see more of these events yet realize they're incredibly complex to pull off.. You won't see me doing it anytime, and I now understand why none of the larger more established promoters have gone far into the multi day events in NYC.. New York is finicky, doesn't like to buy tickets in advance, and will totally bail if the weather turns south.. And given the weather can't be controlled (or insured? ) it may not be possible to have an event like this with the likely result of at least breaking even.. Please take my above list and factor that into future events.. If you don't have your existing bases + the points I've covered, don't throw another event.. You'd be asking for more trouble. But if you can get the things right from Minitek'08, and add in solutions to the 13 points above, and have enough cash to cover all of the expenses up front even if NOBODY walks through the door.. then.. just maybe.. we'll all come back, bring our friends, you'll make your money back, have a kick ass party and get credit for succeeding where soo many others have failed.. but no fancy stuff.. m'kay?
(I speak for absolutely no one with the above words. No one I've taken pictures of, for, or in spite of.. I am a problem solver by profession, with a bit of a photographic memory, and a fundamental desire to help.. If my words can help someone not have these problems, not get into a situation where these problems could happen, or otherwise sleep better at night, then the 20 minutes I've just spent are well worth it.. )
Cheers,
Peter |
well played! :) |
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| southbound24 |
| quote: | Originally posted by fotoaddict
Their blog is wordpress 2.6.. There's an iPhone app that will post directly without wifi.. Coney Island had strangely good Edge coverage.. I'd bet at least 200 iPhones in that crowd.
Depending on wifi for anything was a mistake. Not knowing how to work around the problems was a bigger mistake though.. They needed a techno MacGyver..
Having read through most of the posts available at this point, and having seen the backstage to most of the major NY events (and some Toronto, Miami, ... ones) in the past 3 years.. Here, my thoughts: (in no particular order..)
1.. They were short on cash.. This event could have taken in roughly 750 x 25 (fri night) + 750 x 25 (sat night) + 4000 x 75 (sat/sun day + weekend passes) = 337500 roughly.. optimistically.. accounting a bit for the ticket fees and other costs to selling the tickets.. On that basis, and given the lineup, I'm going to guess conservatively 100k for djs, 30k for sound for all the venues (and this obviously wasn't the highest bidding sound!), maybe 10k for security at coney both days, 10k for coney rental, 5k for tents.. night venues may be no cost, with some form of bar guarantee.. So that's 155k spent, before the doors open, and I'm pretty sure I'm low. Also.. Any internet sales revenue is generally held until the event is over (to deal with the possibility of an event cancelation, or refund demands..) So that 155k would have come out of pocket.. and doesn't count the bar, or any staff (they SHOULD have had!) for the day of the events.. Nor any bracelet fees, internet connections, ... everything adds up, and when the hits the fan during an event, cash is the only thing that solves problems.. (besides maybe a dedicated staff who's been through dozens of shows with you in the past, and trust they'll get paid) I'd bet that Saturday day, the bar money was needed to pay other expenses on the spot.. Just a hunch.
2.. Radios.. You can't be everywhere, and without radios you can't talk to the people you need to give them instructions without them.. maybe nextel if you've got that, but cell phones are a big no when there's loud music.. I didn't see radios Saturday except for security. .they may have had them sunday, not sure..
3.. Staff.. with a potential for 5k people, a "staff" of 6, plus a bevy of volunteers (of which 25+ didn't show) won't cut it. If there weren't at least 100 paid staff for the PVD @ Pier 54 event, I'd be surprised.. Those hundred lead by 10-15 managers all with radios in constant communication.. And lets not forget specific staff & security to keep a tight eye on cash, preferably in a single location. And figure 15-20 per hr at least for staff..
4.. A 3 day multi site show needs multiple shifts of folks working.. 20 or so hours in, people fall apart.. Being in charge of a certifiable mess for that long can cause a heart attack, even if you're sober.. So this comes back to staff, and having folks on site hours before an event starts.. Again, for the PVD show, they started setup something like 36 hrs before doors opened. A lot has to happen.. and there must be a schedule, blocking out what happens when, that has buffer for the things that go wrong. Each site needed someone in charge, available from 6 hrs before doors open till 3 hrs after doors close. Everyone must know who that person in charge is, or at least who's above them in the chain of command.
5.. Sound.. Hate to say it, but loud sound is not the same as good sound.. I can't attest to if these guys knew what they were doing, or not, but I can say... They didn't do a sound check for either stage.. And by sound check, I mean to tune the system to the environment. The EQs for both stages were flat both days.. I have photos.. It could be a timing thing for the first day, but I'm not sure. Also, there were cables spliced together on site with electrical tape and milk crates covering the connections to protect them. There was a power strip for something in the second sound tent protected by a stick.. Lets hope that wasn't important, though someone did use it to charge their cell phone. And as for the second stage.. I first heard it started late because of a lack of power.. then due to a lack of needles, then because the sound guys were holding out for payment in full.. either way that's bad on the sound guys fault, and I'd strongly recommend everyone stay away from them going forward.. Oh and recording the shows + publishing them online without permission.. Not professional, and probably a contract violation with the artists at a minimum.
6.. Bar.. outsource it.. Yes, it's a tempting revenue stream.. but yikes it comes with a lot of hassle. Checking ids, not running out of beer, water, booze, mixers, ... get someone who does bar stuff every day of their lives to just "own it" and cut you in on the deal.. they'll get the staff for ids, bartenders, cash takers, vans for transport, ... and it's done. Having the promoter take ticket money is not a good use of time.
7.. DJs.. there sure were a lot of them.. who was taking care of them? managing the artists needs is a job in itself depending on the artist.. but across 50 names and 3 days, that's probably 3-5 people's worth of work the days of just to shuttle, feed, get through security, babysit, ... that needs to happen for things to be smooth..
8.. Lights.. ouch, going from the darkness to looking into those Coney island spot lights was blinding.. let alone seeing djs trying to spin vinyl in the dark..
9.. Wristbands... Ok, neat idea, but no.. neat should not be mixed with "first attempt at a multi thousand person festival".. (nor SECOND attempt, if such an event happens..) Depending on internet access in 3 locations, needing computers to work, ... all to be bleeding edge is just asking for trouble. And at the very least, there should have been a backup plan ahead of time with 5 bracelets (1 all weekend, fri night, sat day, sat night, sun day) where the person got ALL their bracelets at checkin, so nobody had to check in twice. Also, that $3 fee was crap, they weren't reusable so a refundable deposit goes up there with rebates, and I hate f'in rebates. You never want to make people wait to get in.. best case you lose bar revenue, worst they riot and demand refunds.. not good.
10.. 10pm cutoff.. I can't think of anything amplified in my life that's gone past this cutoff, especially in view of thousands of apartments.. Not sure how this was missed, but those permits should have been had way in advance.. Made announced 5 hrs special bit for PVD weeks before the show, so they must have had better than 99% proof that it was ok in writing or it wouldn't have been announced. "Day of permits only", I don't know anything that happens day of in NYC, especially on the weekend..
11.. Microphones.. You've got to be able to talk to the crowd for announcements and such.. Have at least 1 per stage.. or have a MacGyver type on hand who knows you can use headphones as a mic in a pinch.
12.. Printer.. You're going to need signs.. hand written notes are crap.. Have a printer, with paper and a laptop on site.. for bar price lists, PRESS, VIP, Will-Call, ... signs at the door.. and have the printer ready for any new signs you need on the spot.. Like a sign at all the exits telling where the after party is.. with address and possible subway directions.. 5 or so signs put up during the shows could have solved 90% of the confusion the crowd was having..
13.. Internet updates.. They had a blog, and people had phones.. someone should have updated a few websites on friday and saturday with night event info.. no excuses.. and yes, there's the iphone app, that could have done it from the sites..
And so I'm not a complete a-hole.. Some good things..
1.. In/out passes for everyone @ Day shows.. definitely helps that people can leave, look around coney island, get outside water when the bar's out, ...
2.. The lineup.. Ambitious and pretty freaking awesome..
3.. Having an event outdoors longer than the 4 hr norm..
4.. Varying venues for a multi day event.. I didn't make it to all, and can't speak to friday night's mess. but a Rebel - CI - Studio B - CI - Cielo was a pretty interesting flow, especially for any out of towners..
5. A bar with alcohol (not just beer)!
6. Ample bathrooms.. probably even enough if 2x as many folks showed..
All in, I had a good time.. I'd like to see more of these events yet realize they're incredibly complex to pull off.. You won't see me doing it anytime, and I now understand why none of the larger more established promoters have gone far into the multi day events in NYC.. New York is finicky, doesn't like to buy tickets in advance, and will totally bail if the weather turns south.. And given the weather can't be controlled (or insured? ) it may not be possible to have an event like this with the likely result of at least breaking even.. Please take my above list and factor that into future events.. If you don't have your existing bases + the points I've covered, don't throw another event.. You'd be asking for more trouble. But if you can get the things right from Minitek'08, and add in solutions to the 13 points above, and have enough cash to cover all of the expenses up front even if NOBODY walks through the door.. then.. just maybe.. we'll all come back, bring our friends, you'll make your money back, have a kick ass party and get credit for succeeding where soo many others have failed.. but no fancy stuff.. m'kay?
(I speak for absolutely no one with the above words. No one I've taken pictures of, for, or in spite of.. I am a problem solver by profession, with a bit of a photographic memory, and a fundamental desire to help.. If my words can help someone not have these problems, not get into a situation where these problems could happen, or otherwise sleep better at night, then the 20 minutes I've just spent are well worth it.. )
Cheers,
Peter |
if i was anybody with some type of connection to this industry I would take this post and copy it and hand it out to my staff, that was coming from a true proffesional, he did not beat anyone up verbally, just simply stated the facts with suggestions on how to remedy the situation, very well done
second of all, this just shows how good Made Events is, for all the wining and bitching that goes on these boards, you should all be happy to have a proffesional promoter like Made and Plexi PR on a scene as small as this. PVD and Armin may be big in your hearts but in the scheme of NYC, they are small potatoes, yet Made finds a way to sell out larg venues, run EFFICIENT shows,keep the fans up to date, and keep most of people (except the message board warriors) happy |
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