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Whole country goes forwards and California goes backwards... (pg. 9)
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by woscar99
Sadly, to most people religious views ARE their judgment |
Unfortunately. Religion is great if it works for you, but that does not mean it works for me. And therefore, should not be subject to your view on how it should be. (this is all rhetoric, not directed at you specifically.) |
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| woscar99 |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
Unfortunately. Religion is great if it works for you, but that does not mean it works for me. And therefore, should not be subject to your view on how it should be. (this is all rhetoric, not directed at you specifically.) |
Yeah, I know ;)
I think the problem begins when you take your own religion as the one and only universal truth and begin trying to convert (it's actually more like coerce) everyone to your own belief system.
Prop 8 is a perfect example: "The bible says men should only marry women (and vice-versa), therefore I will vote to keep it that way". |
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| XaNaX |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
Yep. Sad too. I really wish people wouldn't allow their religious views and the status quo to cloud their judgment. |
this is one of the reasons that I pretty much refuse to participate in any organized religion. the more I have been involved with them and studied them, the more they disgust me. i have a hard time believing that God wants me to hate someone just because they prefer to have a relationship with a man instead of a woman. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by woscar99
Yeah, I know ;)
I think the problem begins when you take your own religion as the one and only universal truth and begin trying to convert (it's actually more like coerce) everyone to your own belief system.
Prop 8 is a perfect example: "The bible says men should only marry women (and vice-versa), therefore I will vote to keep it that way". |
Exactly. Hit it right on the head. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by XaNaX
this is one of the reasons that I pretty much refuse to participate in any organized religion. the more I have been involved with them and studied them, the more they disgust me. i have a hard time believing that God wants me to hate someone just because they prefer to have a relationship with a man instead of a woman. |
I have had a similar experience. |
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| treeboo |
| quote: | Originally posted by josh rising
the gay community is the final frontier in the U.S. as far as equal/civil rights go.
:( |
Overweight people would like a word with you. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by treeboo
Overweight people would like a word with you. |
Fat people aren't discriminated against. They are granted equal protection. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
Yep. Sad too. I really wish people wouldn't allow their religious views and the status quo to cloud their judgment. |
Hold the phone here. There are plenty of atheists, agnostics, and people who claim to be of faith but really aren't that are opposed to same-sex marriage and homosexuality in general. Conversely, there are plenty of religious people that do not oppose same-sex marriage or homosexuality (United Church, Bahai, Hindu, etc.). Boiling it down to "religious people are anti-gay" is a huge over-simplification. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Hold the phone here. There are plenty of atheists, agnostics, and people who claim to be of faith but really aren't that are opposed to same-sex marriage and homosexuality in general. Conversely, there are plenty of religious people that do not oppose same-sex marriage or homosexuality (United Church, Bahai, Hindu, etc.). Boiling it down to "religious people are anti-gay" is a huge over-simplification. |
I also said the status quo. Which would also include the people that aren't religious and oppose it still because it is not seen to be as "normal" within society. :) |
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| treeboo |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
Fat people aren't discriminated against. They are granted equal protection. |
Fat people can get married and have equal protection under the law but to suggest that there's no discrimination against them is ludicrous. I'm not belittling what gay people have to struggle with but to suggest that marginalization ends with that particular group of society is absurd.
However, Ill admit my point was poor and I misread his initial comment. withdrawn. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by woscar99
Prop 8 is a perfect example: "The bible says men should only marry women (and vice-versa), therefore I will vote to keep it that way". |
You know what I find incredibly funny about this attitude... that it's held up as being of paramount importance when in reality it is rarely referenced in the bible. Homosexuality is never actually mentioned (alluded to once) in the new testament; whereas, eradicating poverty appears nearly 2000 times in the four Gospels alone... yet the evangelicals hold to the "homosexuality is bad" position while doing very little on the social justice front. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
I also said the status quo. Which would also include the people that aren't religious and oppose it still because it is not seen to be as "normal" within society. :) |
Yes, upon a more careful review I note you did include the status quo crowd. I still think the criticism is unfair.. you cannot expect people to simply let go of beliefs they have held their entire lives. Beliefs and values change over-time; in Canada the prevailing beliefs on this subject have already shifted; however, California isn't quite there yet... you'll get there. |
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