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Dude I fvcking suck at making trance. (pg. 2)
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
I could have, but honestly if you ever want to make a thread about how bad I suck I will give you the last 20 tracks I've made (won't pick out the good ones) and you can take your time ripping my "talent" to pieces.
Like make a point by point list of everything people need to avoid when they make trance using my songs. You can make it like 10 pages too.
But that would require that you actually know something about trance, so its def not happening haha JK! I am serious about the list though. |
Dude,
1/ four years isn't long, especially given that when most people say they've been producing for 3 years, they mean, producing 3 years, but in rock bands/learning other music for 10.
2/ You shouldn't set out with the goal to "make trance", its a sure way to fail.
3/ I wouldn't want to know more about modern trance than I do currently:p
4/ Stop making threads about how you are |
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| Storyteller |
| Break the negative cycle and start thinking positives. Wow I've improved drastically compared to a year ago! |
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| tehlord |
How do you make your music?
Loops? Do you create the drums from scratch? Do you use EQ? Compression?
Personally I would ditch FL. I like it and used it for a few months but after I moved to Cubase I realised it sounded a bit plasticky. I cant quite put my finger on it but as a sketchpad it's brilliant, as a tool to get a decent sound I found it limiting (no pun). |
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| pactdonkey |
the base line/kick in the first 10 seconds sound great...almost like a simon patterson style drop that sounds completely different to the melodic build up he created.
Work on those two features by making a song out of them...add in some small melodies to bring it along abit...i say forget all the synth scale melodies...imo they have gone! |
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| Storyteller |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
How do you make your music?
Loops? Do you create the drums from scratch? Do you use EQ? Compression?
Personally I would ditch FL. I like it and used it for a few months but after I moved to Cubase I realised it sounded a bit plasticky. I cant quite put my finger on it but as a sketchpad it's brilliant, as a tool to get a decent sound I found it limiting (no pun). |
Is that question aimed at me?
I use Renoise and sometimes Cubase (never finished anything in cubase thus far though). I use loops occasionally but it's still mostly one shot samples. I also frequently cut out specific sounds from of loops because I like those in particular. And yes,a fair ammount of eq & compression is used. I mix the track as I go. If I mix afterwards i'm no good. :)
I've never (seriously) used fruity loops for music production myself. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
I look at pro tracks, they sound SOOO fvcking simple, like there was 1000 different beats they could combine, and somehow they can magically pick out the 2 that were meant to mixed. |
Yeah, a lot of times in music, especially dance, the simplest idea is the best one, the one that will really move people. If you work out a lot of famous tracks on keyboard, you'll find that they're incredibly simple. But somehow they just WORK.
Frustrating, trying to find that magic combination of elements that will make people go crazy over your tracks... |
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| DJ Robby Rox |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Yeah, a lot of times in music, especially dance, the simplest idea is the best one, the one that will really move people. If you work out a lot of famous tracks on keyboard, you'll find that they're incredibly simple. But somehow they just WORK.
Frustrating, trying to find that magic combination of elements that will make people go crazy over your tracks... |
Yeh see Jive knows exactly what I'm talking about.
I'm not an insecure person at all, but there seems to be this "missing element" when I sit down everyday to produce.
Its like you listen to a pro track, and you think:
"Ok is there any real crazy hardware being used? sicks synth sounds? extremely complicated melody?"
And a lot of times I think "no, not at all".
It sounds so simple, but so damn good. And it does seem after a while like it is some sort of magic or sixth sense that I just don't understand. I KNOW what sounds good. I guarantee it lol. So if I know what sounds good, and that sound is simple, why can't I make that sort of sound?
I do think though piano lessons could help, I don't even know what the other poster was talking about with my bassline being synopated and "simpler than simple" or w/e he said lol. The only time I think about progression is when I'm making a melody or arp line and going from bar 1 to bar 2 all the way to bar 8.
Most of my favorite tracks are nothing but an 8 bar melody and a seperate short intro melody. Like DJ Kims - Jet Lag, Nightfly (only a 4 bar melody), Blow Your Mind, umm gueryella, theres no real progressions happening there. Just maybe 2 or 3 melodies, each one having its own simple progression from bar to bar.
So I'm not even sure what people are talking about when they say when they make progressive, makes me think they make a melody that never ends. Like just keeps progressing lol.
IDK, I might have to get a piano book or some software that teaches piano. I'm not an idiot, got my Bachelors in psych, but music theory is like learning how to program C++ to me, I hate it, it sucks, its boring, and sometimes I think its a complete waste of time. |
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| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
Is that question aimed at me?
I use Renoise and sometimes Cubase (never finished anything in cubase thus far though). I use loops occasionally but it's still mostly one shot samples. I also frequently cut out specific sounds from of loops because I like those in particular. And yes,a fair ammount of eq & compression is used. I mix the track as I go. If I mix afterwards i'm no good. :)
I've never (seriously) used fruity loops for music production myself. |
The question was aimed at the OP, sorry should have made that clear. |
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| G-Con |
I know how you feel. I also get very frustrated with the quality of my productions when compared to the real pro-sound, though I recognise that 3 years for me is not a long time really and I can only keep on improving.
Listened to the track...
1) Partly subjective taste but the bass line is too simple and too static for too long throughout. And as the bass line is quite a dominant focal point in this track, it becomes a problem. The groove of the bass is too straight (if you understand what I mean). This in itself is not an issue if...
2) ...the percussion has a little bit of groove to it which yours doesn't. This causes the repetitve rhythm of the track to become tiresome and sound amateurish. I think a year or so ago, I commented on a tune of yours which had the same issue. It all sounded so straight and "oompa oompa"
3) The melody on this track is too simple and uninspiring. Nothing wrong with simple melodys but you have a) a bass line playing 3 notes going upwards b) one lead playing the same 3 notes going upwards c) a second lead/back synth playing the same 3 notes going upwards.
Melodies should have more variation than this. Mix it up a bit. As your bass goes up, have the lead go down, as one synth changes notes, have the other stay the same, then change in the next phrase. Start the lead on a different note to the bass line etc etc. As you can tell, I know no theory or know any of the terminology so apologies for the crude descriptions of melodic changes.
4) The arrangement itself lacks a bit of direction in terms of building and releasing tension and energy and peaking that energy at the right time.
Of course all this is about this one track. You may well have others that have none of these problems and you may already be more than capable of avoiding the issues I've raised above but I can only judge the example you have given. |
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| lenieNt Force |
Well its about getting elements to work together mate.. and remember bass is a very essential part of it all in dance music. If you're bass sucks, everything else will suck, cause bass is the major wave in the frequencyspectrum, all other waves will follow the wave of the lowest frequencies/ the bass. If you want to make people lose their heads on the dancefloor you gotta get your bass right.
And like I said its about getting elements to work together. And progressive trance means that the tune progresses over time, new elements is introduced in breaks, takeoff; all elements coming in including bass.. etc etc.. new elements going in.. and out towards the end.. and it follows a pattern. 4 bars, 8 bars, or 16 bars.
If you wanna learn how to make good music you gotta listen to good music. No not just listen, listen ANALYTICALLY. Concentrate on seperating elements, listen to one at a time, listen how they complement eachother, fill eachother out. What has the producer done here to get this sound? How has he done this? If you can answer those questions, you can do it yourself. Can you answer those questions?
Being able to make good music is a talent, thats the cold naked truth. Some have to work some more at it. Just as you might be born a good dancer, born having good rythm. Not everyone in this world has rythm. But being able to maintain focus for a long period of time is also a talent. And with focus and time, you will acquire skills. Some progresses fast cause they have the music inside. Chordprogressions comes naturally cause its a way of expressing what they feel. Telling a story. Telling a story is also a talent, but if you read a lot of books you'll get even better. You start reading music!
Now, go watch this vid and see what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whpcTtQ6eto |
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| Mr.Mystery |
There are just some things that cannot be taught - the things you were or weren't born with. At the end of the day it doesn't even matter how good you are technically if your ideas are lacking.
This isn't directed to anyone in particular, btw - I've not heard the tracks of the thread starter. I just often doubt my own skills as a songwriter... |
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| MOK |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
I do think though piano lessons could help, I don't even know what the other poster was talking about with my bassline being synopated and "simpler than simple" or w/e he said lol. The only time I think about progression is when I'm making a melody or arp line and going from bar 1 to bar 2 all the way to bar 8.
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IDK, I might have to get a piano book or some software that teaches piano. I'm not an idiot, got my Bachelors in psych, but music theory is like learning how to program C++ to me, I hate it, it sucks, its boring, and sometimes I think its a complete waste of time. |
Yeah, I hear ya, and I don't blame you. There's a lot truth to feed that mindset. And I think most folks even agree, somewhat.
But the thing about 'theory' is that it doesn't NEED to be so much theory. There's more practical takes on it, and ways to use it. Like, when you learn piano, you learn (among other things) to properly read music notation. Do you realize how valuable that is? To actually be able to communicate in specific terms what timings and notes etc etc you want to use or to understand precisely what someone else is trying to describe? Immensely valuable! Maybe you already know how to read music, I dunno. But there's other aspects of theory that are just as valuable for very similar reasons. It helps you realize the patterns that are happening in concrete, specific ways, it takes away the nebulous nature of a lot of it.
Think about math. Sucks, right? But how often do you use Addition, multiplication, division, etc? A lot. It's more than just useful, even though you could certainly continue your life without using it.
like calculus... Useful? Maybe, it depends on what you want to do. But most folks never EVER need it.
Music theory is just like this. The basic stuff is supremely useful, not that complicated, and allows you a commonality of knowledge, terms and communication with other musicians who know the same stuff.
Advanced theory? Meh, take it or leave it, depends on what you want.
But at least the basics, which you'll learn EASILY in regular ole' piano lessons, will help you immensely. It's not gonna be calculus, it's just like basic math, and trust me you wont mind it, especially after you start using those basic aspects of theory.
If you go about learning it though, try and get a real instructor. Personally, I'm good with self study. I eat technical books. It's a gift or something. But when I bought a music theory book? Forget about it. I'm still working on it. But with a real live instructor, I had much more enthusiasm, he concentrated on where I didn't understand, he related things in terms that I understood, heck the appointments even imparted a sense of responsibility so I wouldn't crap out(like I did with my book).
Dont get a book, get an instructor. It'll be worth it. Private or public lessons are both good. Consider it.
Okay, so that was a bit of a tangent there... Or maybe not so much, I dunno. But give it a shot. I really do think you'll get a lot of out piano lessons. I think it will begin to open up a creative door for you. Your vision of what you want, how to get it, and how it relates to other music will become much clearer. |
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