Originally posted by The17sss
There is no question that Obama's reaction in the past week has been much more tepid than the Regan example I used.
Well, I would hope so. This isn't the Cold War, and Tehran isn't being occupied by a foreign aggressor. While there is credence to claims of fraud, it may well be that Ahmedinejad represents the legitimately-elected government of Iran. That example isn't a parallel one.
Renegade
I doubt that Khamenei's latest speech is going to do anything to soothe the unrest over there. He's decisively cast his lot in with the Ahmadinejad camp now, and if the protests don't subside (or are not sufficiently supressed, more to the point) then his fate is inexorably bound with the president's. His comment that "political leaders would be blamed for any violence" suggests that things could get worse for the protestors in Iran before they get better, but I think he's basically ed now if the uprising swells any further. He's given the Mousavi supporters no reason to presume that his own authority is any more legitimate than that of Ahmadinejad's.
Also:
quote:
In Washington, the House of Representatives voted 405-1 for a statement supporting democratic and fair elections, condemning the violence and the Iranian government's "suppression of independent electronic communications through interference with the internet and cell phones."
Although it has no practical impact, it was seen as the strongest message yet from the US government, where President Barack Obama has said he does not want to be seen to be "meddling".
Khamenei is so desperate he's actually putting some of the blame on Israel. Please exaplin to me how "zionists" and Israelis have had anything to do with the protests going on in Iran? Did I miss something? :conf:
Lebezniatnikov
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade
Without looking it up, try to guess who the "1" vote might be. Go on, just guess. It shouldn't be too hard.
Ugh. That man is like the kid in class who goes against the grain just to be "different." What? Gold isn't an accepted form of currency? Well it SHOULD be!
The17sss
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I think you found the subtext but not the substance.
To lay it out for you in the words of someone else:
Haha... why's he bashing Krauthammer so hard like he's an idiot? The guy has won a Pulitzer. And he's not so far out of bounds for calling Obama's reaction complaisant.
William Jacobson, Law professor at Cornell, has a great rebuttal to Andrew Sullivan's stupid necon conspiracy theories. Enjoy:
quote:
To read Andrew Sullivan’s posts on the suppression of the opposition in Iran, you would think American “NeoCons” (whoever they may be) were in the streets swinging batons from the backs of motorcycles, trashing the library at Tehran University, and breaking into homes in pursuit of demonstrators. Sullivan’s post, The Khamenei-NeoCon Agreement, is the latest in his recurring conspiracy theory that supporters of freedom for Iranians are actually against freedom for Iranians.
Sullivan is not alone, as many other bloggers have been affected by NeoCon Derangement Syndrome, but Sullivan by far is the most depraved, as the screen shot to the right demonstrates. [link here-->] (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_A24UZctD-...g+Agreement.jpg)
The election fraud, the demonstrations, the crack down, the shouts of Death to America, the beatings, the green banners carried in the streets, the millions on the march … it’s all an American NeoCon conspiracy.
And Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khameini, he just got off the phone taking orders from Dick Cheney. Or was it Karl Rove? Or the Head of the Mormon church?
... mentions of Rove and the Mormon church are references to other Sullivan neocon conspiracy theory articles... links are at the website under the quote.
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade
He's given the Mousavi supporters no reason to presume that his own authority is any more legitimate than that of Ahmadinejad's.
Well, I woudnt go that far.....
The ayatolah's legitimacy lies comfortably in the fundamental mysticism of Shia Islam which right now is at it's zenith in that part of the world
hardcore trancer
:( :( :(
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
:( :( :(
mess with the bull...and get the 7.62mm round in the solar plexus. thats how those dudes roll i guess.
1.
Sometime on Tuesday, small urban gangs began organizing within themselves, and, armed with melee weapons and small caliber firearms, began hunting down and attacking Besiji. They are being called, amongst themselves somewhat and by the members of Anonymous and other forum assistants, the National Iranian Resistance, or NIR. We know that as NIR were seen to be an asset to the Iranian people, as they offered protection from Besiji and knew the streets of their cities intimately, they began receiving support in the form of information from many older Iranian citizens, such as shop owners and business people. Due to their spontaneous formation, the Resistance has, as of now, no centralized governing body, tending to operating on a tightly knit cellular level. We are at this time unsure of where the Besiji that are being detained by the Resistance are being taken.
2.
The members of the Resistance do this at great risk to themselves. There are many reports of groups of Besiji and Resistance encountering each other, and the Resistance being killed on sight. Additionally, when NIR are found by Pasdarna troops (Also known as the IRG, IRGC, Iranian Revolutionary Guard (Corps)) they are arrested. Where they are taken is currently unknown.
3.
On Wednesday morning, Supreme Ayatollah Khamenei authorized the following individuals complete control to suppress all protest movements in 1 week (June 24th, 2009.) Afshin Kamel, Haj Ali Rezaei, Ali Afsari, Majid Afshardi Amir Ghorbani, Amir Maghouli, Amir Hossein Arich, Mehdi Amiri, Hossein Yabgar, Ilias Dizji, Ebrahim Mahmoodi, Mehdi Ebrahimi, Mehdi Ebrahimi Fereidoon Taghizadeh, and Mahmoud Fatehi. Most of the above are officers within the Pasdarna, of varying ranks.
4.
In response, the Islamic Republic of Iran Army, which is the armed forces sanctioned by the constitution of Iran, have taken measures to protect the people of Iran, and the sanctity of the Republic. Those measures have included arresting Besiji militants, as well as patrolling the streets of various cities, focusing on Tehran, almost continually since Wednesday afternoon until the time of writing, Saturday morning. As they have been ordered, they have taken many Resistance members into custody, however they are yet to turn any over to Pasdarna forces. At this point, that is close to a direct defiance of orders from the Supreme Leader.
5.
At some point after the Army began pursuing Besiji leads, with the combined efforts of the Resistance, the Islamic Republic of Iran Army's leading officers began telling top politicians, including Khamenei himself, that they plead for no violence, or they will be forced to carry out their constitutional duty and fullfil their oath, protecting the people of Iran. They cite Article 143 of the Iranian Constitution.
6.
Additionally, they state that Ahmadinejad personally violated Article 145 of the Iranian Constitution by using foreign forces against citizens of Iran. As of Thursday evening, both Palestinian Hamas and Lebanese Hezbollah were known to be aiding the Revolutionary Guard.
7.
Finally, they have the legal support granted by Articles 3.6, 38, and 39 to stop any attempted coup d'etat against the Republic. While not publically acknowledged, it is implied that they are accusing Khamenei and Ahmadinejad, as well as the Pasdarna, of attempting to seize total control over the Republic of Iran.
8.
Friday morning, prior to the prayers and Khamenei's speech, the National Iranian Resistance leaders of various areas began asking for the Iranian Army to assist them in protecting the Iranian people on Saturday.
9.
They also warn that if Khamenei is removed from his seat by political and clerical action by the clerics in Qom, and another Supreme Ayatollah is appointed, it may result in Ahmadinejad and the above named Iranians seizing full control of Iran.
10.
It is suspected that on the protests at Saturday, June 20th, 2009, to be held at 4pm, across the cities of Iran, the Islamic Republic of Iran Army will not have the strength to defend all protests and protesters from the combined threat of Besiji and Iranian Revolutionary Guard forces. The National Iranian Resistance have shared that they are going to attend protests and do what they can to protect people from military action, however they have very little military experience and acknowledge that flaw. Additionally, members of the Resistance with clerical experience will be with the protesters, providing them with the guidance and protection of God, an additional disobedience to the will of Khamenei.
11.
12.
13.
Published at 12:39, Saturday, June 20th, 2009 [Iranian Time]
14.
The above document was written by ProtesterHelp, available on twitter at http://twitter.com/ProtesterHelp and e-mail at [email protected]. Please share this with whoever you feel would be interested.
Fir3start3r
...and so the clashes continue...
Comments from the Iranians themselves
quote:
Page last updated at 16:27 GMT, Saturday, 20 June 2009 17:27 UK
Your reaction to Iranian protests
Iranian police have used water cannon, batons and tear gas to disperse protests over the presidential election, witnesses in Tehran say.
Police earlier warned protesters not to gather, but several thousand made their way to the central rally site.
Eyewitnesses have been telling the BBC what they saw on the streets of Tehran.
I was part of the protest in Valiasr Square. When we got there, there were riot police and plain clothes guards shooting at people, I could see that people had been shot and were on the ground. There were also water cannons. We decided to head towards Azadi Square, and there were guards on motorbikes and attacking people with batons.
There were thousands of people out on the streets the police were using tear gas - the whole experience was terrifying. Towhid (Unity) Square looked like a battle ground.
There were lots of female protestors - I saw a guard attack one women and then she went back up to him and grabbed him by the collar and said 'why are you doing this? Are you not an Iranian?' - he was totally disarmed and didn't know what to do but her actions stopped him.
There were no ambulances around - people were helping each other - helping the wounded - taking them to safety away from further attacks. Siavash, Tehran, Iran
Plain clothes guards were carrying batons, and some riot police were blocking protesters from entering the square. The guards used tear gas to push the crowds back. This battle went on for about an hour with the protestors moving forwards then back. The crowd was dispersed when about 50 or 60 guards on motorcycles drove into the crowd dispersing them completely. There were about a thousand or so people there, mostly young people. I left shortly after. Siamak, Tehran
My friends told me that in front of Sattar Khan Street, forces were telling people on megaphones: go away before the basijis attack you . My friends are saying many of the people in Enghelab Square are holding copies of the Koran, and are chanting. People are running away through side streets but these forces who are well armed are waiting for them there too. The street is filled with smoke, and the local underground station (Darvaze Dowlat) is also full of soldiers, and they are chasing after defenceless people. There are helicopters from Enghelab Square to Azadi Square. Anonymous
Today is a different day. I and my friends may never return home. We want the world to at least picture our being killed on streets to help democracy in iran and save the world. Pray for us. Farshid, Tehran, Iran
Today we tried to join the protestors in Azadi and Enghelab square, but every route that we tried was blocked by the police. The plain clothed forces are all Sepah (revolutionary guards), as most of them have the Sepah badge on their clothes. In Sattar Khan I saw with my own eyes two ordinary 40-year-old women being beaten severely with electric batons, for nothing but raising their voice in protest. Ehsan, Tehran
I am around Enghelab Square now. There is plenty of Basijiis armed with batons and steel cables standing at the beginning and end of each of the surrounding streets. Their numbers are high. Plenty of them are gathered in Amir Abad street, and I see lots of people going towards Enghelab Street. Ahmad - Tehran
Thousands of police men have gathered and closed all streets that ends main squares. But people have gathered to go to the areas. Ali, Tehran
We set out around 3pm to go to Enghelab Square, but from four different directions our way was blocked. There were riot polices and plain clothed basijis with batons and vans and water cannons blocking the way. From 4pm the crowds started to gather and grow larger. The crowds went towards Azadi Square with their hands in the air in a sign of victory but they were silent. Police blocked the crowds and then started attacking them first with batons then with guns, the crowds stated running away and there were lots of women screaming, it was very frightening. Anon, Tehran
Anti-riot police are hiding in an elementary school building in Jamalzadeh street, they came out, beat up people and dragged them into the building, it's getting nastier as it goes on. Protestors are not afraid at all, they get beaten, they disperse and come together in larger group in a minute. People have learnt lots of tricks during last week and came up with much guts today. Helicopters can be seen all over the sky and I can see smoke rising from different parts of the central part. They beat people up brutally not knowing that they get more and more angry and used-to such behaviour! Mania, Tehran, Iran
We will continue to protest and we have several reasons to do so. First because we demand our rights. Second because were not afraid. Third - we will not be fooled. And fourth - in this way, the true face of this regime will be revealed to the whole world. Iman, Iran
You gotta log in to facebook to watch it but the guy who posted says this:
quote:
At 19:05 June 20th Place: Karekar Ave., at the corner crossing Khosravi St. and Salehi st.
A young woman who was standing aside with her father watching the protests was shot by a basij member hiding on the rooftop of a civilian house. He had clear shot at the girl and could not miss her. However, he aimed straight her heart. I am a doctor, so I rushed to try to save her. But the impact of the gunshot was so fierce that the bullet had blasted inside the victim's chest, and she died in less than 2 minutes. The protests were going on about 1 kilometers away in the main street and some of the protesting crowd were running from tear gass used among them, towards Salehi St. The film is shot by my friend who was standing beside me.
Please let the world know.
Here are some students being shot at by rooftop Basij while the camera is rolling:
More shooting into the crowd filmed by BBC Persia:
