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Iranian Election: The Revolution Will Be Youtubed (pg. 9)
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| Lemonad |
Well Khamanei has spoken, and backs Ahmadinejad and denounces Mousavi.
Now i think this is a blessing, because Khamanei just dug his own grave.
He has denied a fresh elections proving he was part of the fraud, he won't be trusted by anyone anymore.. not like he was ever trusted.
So to all other Iranian brothers, a great thing has happened, Khamanei will be destroyed over this. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lemonad
Well Khamanei has spoken, and backs Ahmadinejad and denounces Mousavi.
Now i think this is a blessing, because Khamanei just dug his own grave.
He has denied a fresh elections proving he was part of the fraud, he won't be trusted by anyone anymore.. not like he was ever trusted.
So to all other Iranian brothers, a great thing has happened, Khamanei will be destroyed over this. |
Let's hope you're right and they'll finally overthrow him.
Btw, I just stumbled upon this -> http://213.163.90.48/, so if anyone wants to spam Iranian authorities, feel free to do so :)
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Call these numbers to discuss the Iranian elections!
Do NOT do from within Iran.
President
00989121196107
00989123274006
Esfandiyar Rahim-Masha'i - Vice President of Iran
[email protected][/email]
Council of Guardians
00982166401012
Mojtaba Samareh-Hashemi - President's trusted advisor and campaign manager
00989121081443
Ali Akbar Javanfekr - Press advisor to the President
[email][email protected]
00989123279500 (telephone)
00982164454028 (fax)
Gholamhoseyn Elham - Government spokesperson
00989121486826
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| Lemonad |
My mum just rang up my Uncle in Iran, and he claims that parts of Shiraz are slowly filling up with Army tanks.
This is going to get interesting. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
He never calls for military action vs. Poland either. And contrast that with Obama's message here:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/was...-elections.html
... where he sounds more interested in breaking bread with the oppressors and placating everyone. That's the difference I was talking abuot. |
I think endorsing Mousavi would be catastrophic to his cause. Everytime Bush came out against "tyranny" in Iran, he only made the regime there more legitimate. Given our history pre-1979, even the impression that we were invested in the outcome would completely tarnish Mousavi's organic reputation.
This guy lays it out well:
http://blog.beliefnet.com/cityofbra...ma-to-spea.html
Besides, Obama has said exactly what you wanted to hear from Reagan - that the United States supports the people of Iran and the choice they make. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
Furthermore:
| quote: | KISSINGER: Well, you know, I was a McCain supporter and — but I think the president has handled this well. Anything that the United States says that puts us totally behind one of the contenders, behind Mousavi, would be a handicap for that person. And I think it’s the proper position to take that the people of Iran have to make that decision.
Of course, we have to state our fundamental convictions of freedom of speech, free elections, and I don’t see how President Obama could say less than he has, and even that is considered intolerable meddling. He has, after all, carefully stayed away from saying things that seem to support one side or the other. And I think it was the right thing to do because public support for the opposition would only be used by the — by Ahmadinejad — if I can ever learn his name properly — against Mousavi. |
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/18...ger-obama-iran/
I rarely agree with this man, but I think he's spot-on here. We can't play into the radical's hands on this one. It would crush the organic nature of this movement. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Furthermore:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/18...ger-obama-iran/
I rarely agree with this man, but I think he's spot-on here. We can't play into the radical's hands on this one. It would crush the organic nature of this movement. |
I don't think there's any argument to the contrary really; everyone is pretty much of a simular opinion.
The ball really is in Khamanei's court and is currently staying there despite his best attempts at deflecting that reality.
I fear that Khamanei's patience is wearing thin however and I do fear for the Iranian people as there could be a very dark day on the horizon for those that want change. :( |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
I don't think there's any argument to the contrary really; everyone is pretty much of a simular opinion.
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You'd be surprised:
| quote: | Chait makes the obvious point:
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_...n-argument.aspx
Today's Washington Post op-ed page has two more columns lambasting Obama for failing to embrace the demonstrators. Today's offerings are by Charles Krauthammer and Paul Wolfowitz. Neither one of them even mentions, let alone answers, Obama's argument for why embracing the demonstrators would be counterproductive.
That's because they are about attacking the president, and have learned absolutely nothing from their engineered catastrophes of the past eight years. And how, pray, does a man who pioneered and defended the brutal torture of prisoners in wartime, and enthusiastically backed the pulverization of Gaza last January, have any standing on a question of human rights and democracy? |
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.c...cons-again.html |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Furthermore:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/18...ger-obama-iran/
I rarely agree with this man, but I think he's spot-on here. We can't play into the radical's hands on this one. It would crush the organic nature of this movement. |
Oh now you're a realist? :haha: |
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| Q5echo |
Andrew Sullivan still upset over the scaring three Al Queera's and Israel's unquestionable effectiveness against a war mongering new democracy in Gaza and uses it shortsightedly against other pundits whom he merely disagrees with on motivations.
The epitomy of petty bitchiness |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Besides, Obama has said exactly what you wanted to hear from Reagan - that the United States supports the people of Iran and the choice they make. |
There is no question that Obama's reaction in the past week has been much more tepid than the Regan example I used.
Anyway, I think Lemonad makes a good point (in regards to Khamanei giving an ultimatum): "Now i think this is a blessing, because Khamanei just dug his own grave." |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
Oh now you're a realist? :haha: |
No, I'm a liberal institutionalist, but I've been reading a lot of Stephen Walt lately, so who knows what the future holds. And in any case, in matters of foreign policy it's typically prudent to advocate the opposite of whatever your neo-con "pragmatists" want. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
Andrew Sullivan still upset over the scaring three Al Queera's and Israel's unquestionable effectiveness against a war mongering new democracy in Gaza and uses it shortsightedly against other pundits whom he merely disagrees with on motivations.
The epitomy of petty bitchiness |
I think you found the subtext but not the substance.
To lay it out for you in the words of someone else:
| quote: |
By Joe Klein
The Washington Post's increasingly strident op-ed page offers a double-barreled neocon assault on President Obama's Iran position today by Charles Krauthammer and Paul Wolfowitz. And it's interesting to see these fellows--among the smartest of the neos--deploy the usual intellectual shortcuts in the neoconservative bag of tricks: Broad, unsupported statements of opinion posing as fact...and false historical analogies.
Take Krauthammer. He boldly states this:
"The demonstrators are fighting on their own, but they await just a word that America is on their side."
They do? Which ones? Name one. And if that word came, what then? Would it be the same as the "word" Dwight Eisenhower sent, and later regretted, supporting the Hungarian protesters in 1956 when he had no intention of supporting them militarily? Or the "word" that George H.W. Bush sent the Iraqi Shi'ites after the first Gulf War, who then rebelled against Saddam Hussein and were slaughtered? In fact, it seemed clear to me when I was in Iran--and even more clear, given the events of the past few days--that the protesters realize that they have to do this on their own. And that an American endorsement would taint their movement, perhaps fatally.
Wolfowitz deploys an interesting historical analogy from his own past--the Reagan intervention in the Philipine elections--but it is flawed as well. For one thing, no winner had been announced when Reagan intervened, after a period of restaint, in favor of Corazon Aquino and those who voted to topple President-for-Life Ferdinand Marcos. For another, the Philippines were a former U.S. colony that remained, at that point, very much a U.S. client state. We had military bases there. We had real power. (Wolfowitz also doesn't deal with the fact that there were announced results in the Iranian elections--and that Ahmadinejad might well have won without the fraud.)
Iran is quite the opposite from the Philippines. It never was an American colony, but the U.S. policy toward the Persians was relentlessly neocolonial. The U.S. has had, in fact, a notably disgraceful history of intervening in Iranian affairs. There was the CIA involvement in the overthrow of the Mossadegh government in 1953, which Obama spoke about in his Cairo speech. There was the U.S. support for the Shah, who ran a regime every bit as repressive and arguably more brutal than the Mullahs. There was the U.S. support for Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq war--and this remains a bleeding wound in Iran: I spoke with a woman in South Tehran last week whose husband is incapacitated by the poison gas Saddam used during the war (and which all Iranians, including those in the streets, are convinced was supplied by the Americans). There are many chemical victims of the war in Iran, and many war dead, a constant reminder of U.S. meddling. And there was George W. Bush's pronouncement of Iran as part of an Axis of Evil, which many of the Iranians I first met in 2001 and have kept in touch with ever since--vehement reformers all--found insulting.
If Charles Krauthammer had bothered to ask anyone, he would have learned that the reform movement is every bit as outraged by the history of U.S. meddling as the Ahmadinejad supporters are--arguably moreso, because they are well-educated, sophisticated people who despise the neocolonialist condescension toward Iran that marked American presidents from Dwight Eisenhower to George W. Bush.
The failure to understand this basic fact--the failure to even care what Iranians, even the Iranians who hate the regime, actually think--is at the heart of the lethal carelessness that marked the Bush Junior's Administration and neoconservative thinking in general. I would guess that the Supreme Leader--which is the man's actual title, no matter how Krauthammer disdains it--is itching for an excuse to send tanks into the streets. (Which he may well do anyway.) If Barack Obama were sounding like John McCain, the tanks would have been in the streets days ago, with hundreds, perhaps thousands of people killed, and a ready excuse that would have great credibility with the Iranian people: the U.S. was at it again, trying to foment a revolution to overthrow the duly elected government of Iran.
But then, in the long-term scheme of things, the neoconservatives would undoubtedly argue, blood will be spilled in the pursuit of freedom. Undouboutedly true, but you don't want the blood to be on your hands. You want it to be the choice of those who are risking their lives in the streets.
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http://swampland.blogs.time.com/200.../#comment-73299 |
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