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Jake Fairley & Nathan Fake in LA? (pg. 6)
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| R!CH |
| rob i'm sure you agree that every person's experience of the same scene is completely unique unto him or herself. many of us here have also been around it in one way or another for many years, maybe not as many as you, but enough to get enough of an indication of what trajectory the music is going. and given that your current aversion towards the scene today seems to be unique to everyone else in this thread (besides julia), it probably has something to do with the fact that you're becoming jaded from the routine of being a up-until-recently-regular dj and promoter. this happens to me from time to time just going every weekend. when it does i find time to take breaks from it all and pursue different interests in my life, and that in itself keeps my interest in the scene fresh. though i honestly can't attest to the merits of the la scene right now as i haven't been back in over a year so you could be totally right for all i know, but again, i'd like to think your current dissatisfaction is a product of having been too immersed in the scene for too long... hopefully :) |
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| Miss Julia |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
I can't speak for any of those folks, but Border Community has not really done anything of note lately in my opinion, with the exception of Tobar's music. Nathan Fake has been largely inactive for quite a bit now and the same goes for James Holden.
As for "different", I am less concerned with different than I am with "quality". The Djs I like tend to play quality dance music regardless of what genre tag beatport or anyone else decides to give it.
I'm not sure what you're into now Julia so I can't really help you, but have been some really fresh artists and DJs passing through LA this year, I've had more fun going out than ever before. I think LA is really starting to get a nice cross section of people doing events and a lot of dedicated individuals who really love this music working on having great parties. |
Just like you, I'm more concerned with the quality of music, rather than the genre. I couldn't help but be bored out of my mind with the stuff I've heard the very few times I did go out the past year :-/ But I'll go out again and see what else is out there.
Border Community has only been "inactive" in the westcoast. They just don't get booked often out here, and I think it's because a lot of promoters want to stay "safe" and book the same music style that every other dj is booking out here. That's why I have to give it to Incognito for stepping out of that boundary and taking more risks by booking them. |
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| alan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
Yes, and you said, other events were constrained, and I am curious as to which those may be? I can't really think of any.
As far as I'm concerned, the only true constraint when booking dance music should be quality, and personally I don't find some of the artists you listed to be quality. Those are matters of personal taste though. |
One of the best tech house sets we've ever had was by ERIC KUPPER. As a couple of DJs on TA and promoters who were there that night will attest to. And yes, that was their personal taste.
If you have no constraints, then you guys should book other DJs outside of the Techno+House world. Or for some peculiar reason, only DJs in that specific scene produce good music? Isnt that the constraint already, your personal taste in music that tells you that some artists are not quality when more people who are also into EDM think they are?
You pointed out that good music is good music regardless of genre. if such is the case, your bookings should show that you book other people who play other genre's. The proof should be in the pudding.
That is where my statement that other events are constrained. Either by choice, by personal taste or any kind of bias. Still a constraint at the end of the day.
I guess the easiest way is show me is a Drum and Bass DJ or a Vocal Soulful House DJ that you think is quality. Then pair them up with your normal bookings.
Again, there's nothing wrong with what one event does over the other. This is my personal analysis of the market. |
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| Miss Julia |
| quote: | Originally posted by alan
If you have no constraints, then you guys should book other DJs outside of the Techno+House world. Or for some peculiar reason, only DJs in that specific scene produce good music? Isnt that the constraint already, your personal taste in music that tells you that some artists are not quality when more people who are also into EDM think they are?
You pointed out that good music is good music regardless of genre. if such is the case, your bookings should show that you book other people who play other genre's. The proof should be in the pudding.
That is where my statement that other events are constrained. Either by choice, by personal taste or any kind of bias. Still a constraint at the end of the day.
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"Like" button!
I totally agree. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
rob i'm sure you agree that every person's experience of the same scene is completely unique unto him or herself. many of us here have also been around it in one way or another for many years, maybe not as many as you, but enough to get enough of an indication of what trajectory the music is going. and given that your current aversion towards the scene today seems to be unique to everyone else in this thread (besides julia), it probably has something to do with the fact that you're becoming jaded from the routine of being a up-until-recently-regular dj and promoter. this happens to me from time to time just going every weekend. when it does i find time to take breaks from it all and pursue different interests in my life, and that in itself keeps my interest in the scene fresh. though i honestly can't attest to the merits of the la scene right now as i haven't been back in over a year so you could be totally right for all i know, but again, i'd like to think your current dissatisfaction is a product of having been too immersed in the scene for too long... hopefully :) |
This was going to be my response to Rob. Peoples views and experiences are different. Also will have to double on what he mentioned already. People are showing up less is definately a result of folks truly struggling with their finances, or their parents are struggling and they gotta help out a bit more. Folks are likely struggling more than they have in the past 20 years. I'd be out every weekend if I had the money, but I have to think about putting together my next gear purchase. Forget the rise in the stock market, at the consumer level we're are still near the bottom of a recession cycle. Peoples savings are still nonexistent, so no extra spending money on leisure and lifestyle. We've had 10% unemployment, economy in the ter, mortgage market collapse that seems to not end. Naturally people are going to find another corner to hang out on, and it might not have anything to do with the quality of music being played.
If anything there was no more boring time for me musically than the Minimal movement, but guess what? Parties were packed and people were having fun, the music was good enough for them, and they had the money (or thought they did) to spend. Something to think about...when you have a bunch of people packed into a club when they are financially secure, in good health, and the future is looking allright, any type of music will be a fun time, even Minimal Techno/House. When people are financially screwed "wait, what the is?"
Also you have to take into account there are more parties now, this year we've had addition of MNS at a bigger venue, there is CODE in Newport Beach, Sunday's at the Standard were consistent during spring/summer, there seems to be more festivals. So volume is likely still there if not growing, but things are spreading out more thinner, and eventually will fill back up in line with the economy improving as well within the next 2 years. Everyone will be like "i loveeee this music" to whatever music is going off then.
About the music itself, I do agree there is a lot of poorly crafted shiet coming out. But who do you blame? You can only blame the ethos of the labels putting that stuff out. And DJs that should have stayed Producers being DJs now. The good music is out there, we just gotta search and maybe use good music instead of music just tied to your genre of choice or our labels of choice. Because there is plenty of good music coming out, if you dont hold yourself back, get eclectic and no one will be bored, DJ nor crowd. |
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| pointer |
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
rob i'm sure you agree that every person's experience of the same scene is completely unique unto him or herself. many of us here have also been around it in one way or another for many years, maybe not as many as you, but enough to get enough of an indication of what trajectory the music is going. and given that your current aversion towards the scene today seems to be unique to everyone else in this thread (besides julia), it probably has something to do with the fact that you're becoming jaded from the routine of being a up-until-recently-regular dj and promoter. this happens to me from time to time just going every weekend. when it does i find time to take breaks from it all and pursue different interests in my life, and that in itself keeps my interest in the scene fresh. though i honestly can't attest to the merits of the la scene right now as i haven't been back in over a year so you could be totally right for all i know, but again, i'd like to think your current dissatisfaction is a product of having been too immersed in the scene for too long... hopefully :) |
yes, I think I noted that my observations were completely personal and not supposed to reflect anyone else's POV per se. But I am sure that if it resonates somehow, then you could adopt it as similarly held POV too if you'd like.
I've been DJing rave/techno for 20 years now (I'm 40) and have been pretty intrinsically tied to the LA scene for 9 years now. I've personally produced a few hundred events during that time and I've seen lots of ebbs and flows over this time...
I've seen the beginnings of the rave scene, was witness to the birth of trance, drum and bass, and in some small way (in LA) helped as part of the revival of the techno scene with Compression etc. (ok - not trying to get all OG here, just trying to set the stage that I've been witness to the evolution of this music to a very large and personal degree over the years - and this is what informs my opinion that I'm writing about in this thread)..
Based on my knowledge and experience over the years, I can see when there is something that clearly has a passion and movement (call it music uprising, I guess) around a (sometimes new) genre. For instance, the Dub Step of today is a good example of a completely new genre born out from prior genres that lost steam and gave their energies to new producers who were unafraid to change the formulas and take what was probably fringe sounds of the currently popular music and make those very same fringe sounds the central part of their "new" sound.
Bam - totally innovative and experimental and dynamic new dancefloor music and sounds. Boy that has blown up.
But in general, that experimentation has largely been lost in the current sounds of dance music that we mostly know and love. Its working on rote formulas that are still good - but not necessarily fueling the passion of people like I've seen in prior examples (and been captive to, myself).
yes, there is good music being made - there always will be. But my observation of what is considered "good" exists within a now commonly understood and accepted framework of dance music sounds and production. Its, again, rather same-ey and even the production the parties is lacking in innovation as well (which is a function of budget).
That current stuff is passable to possibly great on occasion if you simply like the status quo and can get down to whatever.
But that's not where I've ever been in as a DJ or an event promoter. The zeitgeist is fully accessible and incorporated and to a large degree - predictable. I'm not into that. There are plenty of capable event producers who produce very extremely good shows to showcase that predictable dance music formula stuff. I've been - and when I'm in the mood - I actually can enjoy myself.
But when I put my money, time, and passion behind something - its gotta feel like its worthwhile. Right now, its not pushing my buttons in the same way other movements (and more recently the sound that Compression is classicly known for) has done in the past.
So, that's what I mean by being bored.
Minimal was clearly the defining sound of this decade. It infiltrated everything, changing DJs styles en masse and even and caused other genres to react against it if it wasn't amenable to minimal production and music aesthetic (& we are talking dance floor here, btw. That's the scope I'm speaking to here).
It also inspired producers, brought new fans, revived old tired genres, and even paraded new hip drugs into the scene (K anyone?) and essentially became a movement of sorts. There is nothing quite like being part of something like that when its firing on all cylinders.
I've been through it a few times with other music types in my experience. Its great.
But clearly we are in a transitional state. This transitional state is, to my sensibilities, what I would call the "downturn" in the overall state of the music scene because we are in a lull of sorts while hopefully the things that make it exciting are reloading, evolving, or just retracting until otherwise ready to pop back up again.
I can state pretty accurately that the numbers for most parties are going down in the areas that used to pack them pretty well - and the numbers for what we might consider more mainstream events are surging. Kaskade at Palladium - sold out with 4000 people. One DJ - and a mediocre one at best. Sold out - and expensive too.
I believe it was all ages, but really? C'mon. That's just mind boggling compared to what most of who live on the vanguard (re; the vibrant, innovative edges of the electronic dance music spectrum) of the scene see.
Let me put it to you this way: Convention - with a sampling of 20+ DJs in September - was widely known about, but that saturday did just slightly over 600 people. I kinda believe that's about what we can expect from the 21+ over crowd who's into specifically what we might call the "hot" techno house stuff of today. That's pretty underwhelming lol. :P
Compare and contrast. Not only do the attitudes of people support the notion that they want more fun and accessibility (and, let's be frank, less cerebral activity) when they go out - I think they are actually reacting against anything that is marketed or feels too haughty or exclusive with a genre.
I don't blame anyone for this. Hell, people want what they want. They have that right.
But I also think that the music coming out now that is becoming more background than foreground in any party, is closer in style and similar production aesthetics to what was popular in the late nineties (think DJ Sneak) rather than pushing forward to some unknown territory.
Call me jaded (i'm not), but I'm excited by things that make me ignore the people around me at a party and force me to listen and want to dance. Right now it sounds and feels like the music is background in quality.
The evidence of a musical evolution is not there at the moment (as a general observation). I know it exists somewhere on the fringes of some popular forms that are being played out - and will roll over everything in due time when producers or DJs pick up on it and decide to focus on it to the exclusion of everything else.... but to my sensibilities its hidden at the moment.
That's why I'm thinking that its smart to pull back, shut up, stay quiet, and listen, listen, listen. Eventually it will reveal itself and I'll be excited again in the way that conjures the feelings of when I started Boom Box or Compression - or when I decided I wanted to DJ back in the day, etc..
But for now, I'm putting my energy in being a DJ, finding those elusive tracks that are golden and will work whatever the state of the scene is in. I'm finding this is a good time to be a DJ with discriminating tastes... (As it should always be, but honestly, some periods of time just make it easy to be a DJ when so much coming out is ing awesome or inspirational... but right now, its feeling less vibrant to me obviously.)
But I hunger for that sense of utter and complete newness so I can be surprised, taken in, and feel a passion to spread that sound. I'm hopeful.
I'm sure its there - but in the meantime, I'll enjoy the downtime and recharge my batteries too. :)
.02,
rob. |
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| pointer |
| quote: | Originally posted by alan
One of the best tech house sets we've ever had was by ERIC KUPPER. As a couple of DJs on TA and promoters who were there that night will attest to. And yes, that was their personal taste.
If you have no constraints, then you guys should book other DJs outside of the Techno+House world. Or for some peculiar reason, only DJs in that specific scene produce good music? Isnt that the constraint already, your personal taste in music that tells you that some artists are not quality when more people who are also into EDM think they are?
You pointed out that good music is good music regardless of genre. if such is the case, your bookings should show that you book other people who play other genre's. The proof should be in the pudding.
That is where my statement that other events are constrained. Either by choice, by personal taste or any kind of bias. Still a constraint at the end of the day.
I guess the easiest way is show me is a Drum and Bass DJ or a Vocal Soulful House DJ that you think is quality. Then pair them up with your normal bookings.
Again, there's nothing wrong with what one event does over the other. This is my personal analysis of the market. |
well, I would put Incognito nights (When you guys book different genres together) as similar to dj's who put sets together like that.
It can be very difficult to pull off a coherent vibe or night of music unless you have a very gifted DJs (or in this case, a very good booking policy of like minded DJs who can work together to achieve this in a night).
I think its an admirable goal - but it also tends to dilute (or maybe more accurately, makes it harder to relay what) your club brand is.
People have a hard time understanding if the night is "this" or is it "that".
Its a tougher slog - and I tend to err on the side of creating specific brands around a specific sound. And when that sound has seen its day (IMO) and I get bored (per my definition above), I move on.
Create something new. Rinse, repeat, etc. I tend to think of Robtronik as the long term brand and the clubs I do as disposable.
But more power to you on the variety part. It does keep things interesting, but probably harder to easily convey what your night is about to someone who wants to know what they are getting into when they come out.
It takes all kinds, so I'm glad you guys are doing your thing. Like we've talked before, I do my stuff differently from you, as well as others, and that's also healthy at that level for the scene in some regard.
But the thought that we don't book outside of techno/house isn't quite accurate either. All of us do that are known for it, but because the branding we do is so laser like to get traction and attention with certain genres, its easy to think that's all those of us in that area (currently) do.
FWIW, I tend not to book someone like Marshall Jefferson for any particular night, because we already have nights dedicated house (i.e. Deep or even Balance) so I would feel like I'm kinda working in on already established territory by others who have carved out that area for those interested in that sound).
The trick, in my book, is to find a niche that excites you, own it, and then be that source for as long as it is necessary or relevant. That's a good place to be for awhile when it lasts - and then eventually some cycle of renewal is needed and you move on to something that feels more alive.
I guess I run my events like big DJ sets. When a sound or track needs to be changed, I change it.
lol
:)
rob. |
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| Kismet7 |
The same things you are saying about the music right now, could not infinitely more truer about Minimal Techno/House. If we are talking musically, to me it was truly boring time in music. Pretention was at all time highs. Outside of the initial novelty, much of its success was a product of happenings outside of the contents of the music itself. Folks actually having money to spend and being in a mind set to have a good time being one of them. No matter what the music was, they just needed a soundtrack for their party, and minimal was it at the time. This might take a few years to become true. Perhaps when you realise you love the music being played, once the parties are going off again, regardless of the contents of the music. It takes far more than the music alone to make a good party. A lot of it has to do with the environment and the mindset people have going into the party, things the music does not control.
That said, I think i'll just enjoy the rest of this Stella and BBQ chips, and watch from sidelines. |
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| R!CH |
holy crap rob, what a read! :disbelief well i understand what you're after, that magic of being part of the genesis of something cutting edge in electronic music, but then you go on to say that no one is doing that right now yet in the same post you even mention the rise of dubstep, which is what i see as edgy, new and still evolving today. the scene is blowing up across north america and the uk, but still in its infancy--as in not even in the consciousness of most people involved in the edm scene yet. when i want outside the box music, i go directly for dubstep (and sometimes its cousin jungle). peep...
http://www.myspace.com/excision
http://www.myspace.com/subvertsounds
http://www.myspace.com/antiserumsf |
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| alan |
| quote: | Originally posted by pointer
well, I would put Incognito nights (When you guys book different genres together) as similar to dj's who put sets together like that.
It can be very difficult to pull off a coherent vibe or night of music unless you have a very gifted DJs (or in this case, a very good booking policy of like minded DJs who can work together to achieve this in a night).
I think its an admirable goal - but it also tends to dilute (or maybe more accurately, makes it harder to relay what) your club brand is.
People have a hard time understanding if the night is "this" or is it "that".
Its a tougher slog - and I tend to err on the side of creating specific brands around a specific sound. And when that sound has seen its day (IMO) and I get bored (per my definition above), I move on.
Create something new. Rinse, repeat, etc. I tend to think of Robtronik as the long term brand and the clubs I do as disposable.
But more power to you on the variety part. It does keep things interesting, but probably harder to easily convey what your night is about to someone who wants to know what they are getting into when they come out.
It takes all kinds, so I'm glad you guys are doing your thing. Like we've talked before, I do my stuff differently from you, as well as others, and that's also healthy at that level for the scene in some regard.
But the thought that we don't book outside of techno/house isn't quite accurate either. All of us do that are known for it, but because the branding we do is so laser like to get traction and attention with certain genres, its easy to think that's all those of us in that area (currently) do.
FWIW, I tend not to book someone like Marshall Jefferson for any particular night, because we already have nights dedicated house (i.e. Deep or even Balance) so I would feel like I'm kinda working in on already established territory by others who have carved out that area for those interested in that sound).
The trick, in my book, is to find a niche that excites you, own it, and then be that source for as long as it is necessary or relevant. That's a good place to be for awhile when it lasts - and then eventually some cycle of renewal is needed and you move on to something that feels more alive.
I guess I run my events like big DJ sets. When a sound or track needs to be changed, I change it.
lol
:)
rob. |
perfect rob, totally agree with you. you focus and own a positioning in the minds of the consumer. a brand for a segment. and the corporate brand is robtronic.
but the battlefield people play in currently is "genre" or "sound specific". as you mentioned, deep does deep. others do techno+house. thats how the industry was when we came in. people owned certain segments and these segments were music based.
even at the onset, we had meanwhile decided to have our brand equity as translate to being "cutting edge house music". which has allowed us float among genre's, sometimes in the same night even.
you are correct. one is easier to focus, sell and own. but as you said, once there is a movement, then also hard to change once consumers associate that brand to a specific sound. you have to launch a new brand to attack a new market. but with that comes new spending to build the brand, and we cant afford that.
ours is harder to execute as its not on a sound but based on a concept, and in that sense, was trying to change the game. most everybody else focused on the sound attribute. we focused on an idea as we felt thats where we can attain differentiation among a healthy events landscape. incognito is our core or corporate brand, same as robtronic. slowly but surely, we will go to brand management after corporate identity is fully established. so when you think about it, positioning wise, we have tried to own a niche as well, the fact of being cutting edge. we maybe able to achieve it or not, but we try. thats one reason why most of our DJs are in their "1st LA Appearance" though of course, not all the time as it will still boil down to who we think fits the vibe that we want.
honestly, only time will tell if it works or not. cheers.
;) |
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| rizo |
| speaking of dubstep, the future sound of breaks had a really good dubstep room this past wmc. i just stayed in there while two friends listened to breaks. also four tet who is playing with nathan fake in february has some dubstep productions. his spectrum of genres makes his live sets fun :) |
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| MindShifter |
if i didn't know any better i'd say this was a straight troll thread - but lets be real, julia has proven over the years that she's too stupid to do something like that on purpose.
no this more of the par for the course "i don't know all about the scene, rarely go out but here's what i think that the promoters should do!" thread.
you live in socal which one could argue next to NYC has the most diverse edm scene in the US and you're complaining that all you hear is "mnml" and that there's no variety. |
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