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Single mother-of-six finds £2m mansion on the net... and then gets YOU to pay £7,000 (pg. 10)
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
brimming over with wrongability. |
lol im getting hammered here.
i'm describing half the problem. you are going to have a bias since you collect welfare. I'm going to have a bias because i've seen many people usurp the system (And believe me, if you want to its easy to do.. just look at ********).
Please name me 1 successful millionaire or billionaire that has gone through the trials of welfare.
Its a deadend street for the masses of society. just like getting paid a standard sallary at a day job. you're comfortable you won't have any motivation to progress.
you get welfare money why strive for anything better. Sure you'll say yes but look at poverty stricken america.. its just a drain on our social system (canada i have to admit has more of a middle class).
Now i have all the welfare brats on my ass. This is upsetting. |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
Please name me 1 successful millionaire or billionaire that has gone through the trials of welfare. |
Fairly much most of the music/recording artists/actors (Eric Clapton, Billy Connelly) inventors (Sir James Dyson- vacuum cleaners) and fashion designers (Derek O'Neill- Billabong clothing), those people all came from virtually nothing to where they are now.
Welfare is only a dead end for people with no inclination to ever better themselves. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
the baby boomers who came from nothing worked their asses off without social benefits to get to where they are today. (they simply didnt have that option). And that is why our society is what it is today.
I totally agree with your point lilith but the sad fact is that tons and tons of people abuse the system due to its light policing.
I do not think that those people you mentioned above were "driven" with the aid of social beneifits. More or less their optionless drive to succeed in society is what got them where they are today.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
I do not think that those people you mentioned above were "driven" with the aid of social beneifits. More or less their optionless drive to succeed in society is what got them where they are today.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. |
I agree, and I think it could be better stated (and I think this is the point you're trying to make) that the longer someone is on the government dole, the less likely they are to climb out on their own will; studies are clear about the culture of dependency and its ambition killing nature per the length of time people receive entitlements. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
i'm describing half the problem. |
nope, you’re barely scratching the surface with your rather primitive assessment.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
you are going to have a bias since you collect welfare. |
no I don’t. and even if I did, that would have nothing to do with my opinions on the basis of the global financial crisis.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
Please name me 1 successful millionaire or billionaire that has gone through the trials of welfare. |
One of my best friends, how you like them apples? Received all kinds of income assistance to his family growing up, plus direct assistance during university, now owns more than 30 houses and hundreds of thousands of dollars in shares. Your viewpoint is myopic and rather ignorant.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
you get welfare money why strive for anything better. |
how about the fact that your lifestyle on welfare is ing house? |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
I do not think that those people you mentioned above were "driven" with the aid of social beneifits. More or less their optionless drive to succeed in society is what got them where they are today. |
Actually I can quite safely say it isn't background that gets you financial success, the majority of people in the world want financial success from all backgrounds and income strata, they just simply lack the drive to get past the low, middle or high income and bust through that last ceiling.
In my opinion, the low, middle and high income people are just the same as the people on the dole, they find a rut, they decide its the safe bet and never break through to being independently wealthy... because it takes a LOT of determination, persistence and a clear objective of what they want. The majority of people just don't have 'it', they don't want 'it' enough and they stay where they are in mediocrity. Luck, money, brains and background have nothing to do with becoming independently wealthy, they're just things that can sometimes make it easier and remove a hurdle in the way of the objective, they aren't things you bank on happening just because you think you deserve it. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
nope, you’re barely scratching the surface with your rather primitive assessment.
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Actually i am.. people have to default on their mortgages to cause a foreclosure.
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no I don’t. and even if I did, that would have nothing to do with my opinions on the basis of the global financial crisis.
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it may have a bias if you were privy to it.
| quote: |
One of my best friends, how you like them apples? Received all kinds of income assistance to his family growing up, plus direct assistance during university, now owns more than 30 houses and hundreds of thousands of dollars in shares. Your viewpoint is myopic and rather ignorant.
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well we wouldn't have had a recession if everyone was just as successful as your friend now would we? I am not talking about anomolies im taking about ignorant people living beyond their means.
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how about the fact that your lifestyle on welfare is ing house? |
it definatley is. But it doesnt stop most people from continuing the trend and doing absolutely everything on credit.
... just saying. |
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| Spam |
Nrg does have a valid point in that the social safety net isn't policed enough. Not by a long shot. I personally know many families that abuse the system. Under their CURRENT status, sure, they could use the help to get by in their life, but it leaves them no motivation to improve and succeed. I know a guy who lives in a co-op home for $110/month because his mom moved out, they aren't allowed to kick him out, and he has no job, and thus no income, and thus pays the lowest monthly rent that he is able to pay (or more accurately, his mom, who works and lives with her new bf pays it for him).
I know a family where the mother is on disability support (and needs it), but then so is the father, the entire family is on welfare, and he makes over 30k/year working cash landscaping and home improvement jobs in Hamilton. On top of that, they don't pay taxes because they are Native Canadians.
Another family makes more than my family has ever made, yet there they are in a co-op housing placement that they don't need, taking the spot from someone on a waiting list who very likely DOES need the help.
I could list a few more examples but I'm sure you get the point. These are all families that are ABUSING the social safety net of our country, that could all be cut back, or cut off, without seriously affecting their ability to live and succeed. They drain resources from the entire country, and they make life harder for the people who TRULY need the help, and there's no easy answer on how to get the leeches out of the system, and keep giving the truly impoverished the help that they need. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
Actually i am.. people have to default on their mortgages to cause a foreclosure. |
The foreclosures might have started the ball rolling, but they were hardly the definitive cause of the meltdown. In any case, you have not provided a shred of evidence that the majority of foreclosures belonged to the welfare class.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
it may have a bias if you were privy to it. |
the causes of the GFC are fairly well documented.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
well we wouldn't have had a recession if everyone was just as successful as your friend now would we? I am not talking about anomolies im taking about ignorant people living beyond their means. |
well, to be fair you merely asked us to name 1 person who received welfare who became a millionaire. And I did :p FYI many Australian students receive welfare while at college or university (*waves*), and while they might not become millionaires they certainly gain employment in just about any field you might care to mention. After studying for a decade my sister is finally a doctor, and there’s no way that would have happened without government assistance.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
it definatley is. But it doesnt stop most people from continuing the trend and doing absolutely everything on credit.
... just saying. |
You can’t keep making assertions without providing some kind of statistical analysis. When I was highschool, the unemployment rate (ie the number of people receiving unemployment benefits) was around 11%. Today’s figure is around 5%. So, more than half the people receiving benefits gained employment and ceased receiving welfare. No doubt there are welfare abusers that use the system for their own ends, but I find your implied assumption that these people represent most or all of those receiving welfare to be one of the many myths concerning the advanced welfare state. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
ok rastlin. I'm not talking about students getting money for education. I am talking about those who simply get money to just get by because they are unemployed then abuse the system. Social welfare for those who are low income and not pursuing higher education.
Those who continually collect EI
those who collect social welfare because they spend all their money on booze and work at kmart
I am for government subsidizing and health care to a certain extent. When money is given to people without reprimand i am against it. There should be some sort of payback otherwise its a huge drain on the economy creates some sort of bubble which drives down the value of currency from monetary printing.
IF the payback is strengthening the economy, high paying job opportunities then there is no question that the investment be made. Otherwise you put money into the pot you deserve something in return.
If you take money from the pot you need to replenish it in one matter or form.
the reasoning for the financial crisis is evident and simple PKC. dont try to complicate matters the issue is simply a credit crisis where people were living beyond their means not able to replenish the pot in which they took from.
You are going to go ahead and blame the insitutions which were generous enough to lend the money? Sure they are making intrest but they are also giving an opportunity that should not be abused.
you want evidence? Just look at the stockmarket and how its tumbled.
This is the result of the credit crash. assets become devalued due to a surplus (the initial case forclosed homes) , companies thus devalued, investors panicking and shares devalued, spending halting, deflation job loss etc.
Do you think the common welfare peon living their life on credit is going to admit that they were stupid enough to get a 1,000,0000 house on a 30,000 dollar salary? really? if not then michael moore is waiting for you in the corner with a big fat welfare cake.
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again :p |
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| Lilith |
I don't think you can level the last hiccup on poor people at all, in fact its a very big compound problem because if it wasn't for de-regulated, fly by night lenders giving dud loans and then rolling the inevitable failure into A-Grade securities out of greed that caused some of the biggest damage.
The fault with that lies solely with the lenders.
They created the problem, but the root cause of that goes back into the US educations system for economists, the de-regulation many claimed (wrongly) was strangling economic development and the fact the US president was some southern inbred more intent on war than domestic management. the Yanks eduction system is based more on money to pay for it than any kind of merit to achieve so you get a lot of spastics and super dodgy running important things, their economy itself is always crying poor about any restrictions put on it and confidence in investment from outside sources started hitting sub-zero because of those things.
If nothing else it did serve notice in a way that the US economy isn't an island, it is heavily dependent on outside opinion and investment, to this day I don't rightly know if they actually learnt anything from the event. Most of them are still running around holding their very burnt asses and crying poor rather than putting any kind of initiative in place to stop it happening. |
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