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Single mother-of-six finds £2m mansion on the net... and then gets YOU to pay £7,000 (pg. 15)
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| saymyname |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
my argument is simply that a majority of these recipients are welfare cheats and its a drain on our system. I dont know how i can prove statistically who and who aren't the cheats but its evident when you see people living beyond their means and causing the system to collapse that not enough policing is in effect and delinquent welfare recipients are getting a free lunch with taxpayers money and contributing if not causing credit crisis'. |
I can tell you why you're losing this argument. It's because you're trying to battle reasoned, educated, statistical evidence and common sense with conjecture and anecdotal twaddle, not forgetting the unproven sweeping statements.
How do you know that most people on benefits are cheating? Because you once saw a rather shifty looking chap come out of the job centre stroking his moustache and carrying big bags with '$' signs on them? This is what your arguments look like- nonsense. You may have encountered someone who is a benefits cheat, but how can you then just decide that most of them are?
So you looked into a poor person's house once, and you saw a big tv. That's the moment you decided that 'everybody' is living beyond their means on credit. I know it must wind you up that everyone is getting a free lunch that YOU are paying for, but you cant blame people for playing the game sometimes. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| Karim is just mad that people on welfare own nicer things than he does. |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
just a recap please to show how stupid i am.
I have proclaimed:
-Living on credit is a bad thing if you abuse it (which alot of people do stats shown)
-Adjustable mortgage rates are risky
-The global financial crisis was instigated by people living beyond their means (defaults on mortgages, forclosures, you can partially blame the big boys as lilith has civilly pointed out)
-alot of people abuse the welfare and union systems by not contributing back to the pot. (see all of the above) |
i agree on everything but point 3..... i blame that one wholly on the US banking system.... the general public is relatively stupid about fiances and when the big bankers told them they could afford that 500k home they believed them (albeit stupidly) it was predatory lending practices and then the subsequent packaging of risky assets and marketing them out as investments that caused the storm. |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by saymyname
So you looked into a poor person's house once, and you saw a big tv. That's the moment you decided that 'everybody' is living beyond their means on credit. I know it must wind you up that everyone is getting a free lunch that YOU are paying for, but you cant blame people for playing the game sometimes. |
Just because abuse has become institutionalized in some places doesn't make it right. I can speed when there are no cops around but its still breaking the law. If i get caught, the excuse "well everyone else is doing it" won't work.
while Karim's comments may come off as conjecture and heresay, they do hold some water. Many people do live off of revolving credit on high interest credit cards, which financially, is a stupid idea. I know lots of people who will purchase big ticket items like vacations, furniture and home renos on their Visa or Mastercard, and then take 6 months to pay it off. Credit cards were never meant to be used like a line of credit. My roomate is one of them.... he is in big in a couple years he is currently paying 800 a month in INTEREST on his current debt load and he just left to go to vancouver to see the olympics paid for by his visa.....
another part of this problem is the credit card industry and its horrible lending practices, but thats a whole other can of worms... |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by colonelcrisp
i agree on everything but point 3..... i blame that one wholly on the US banking system.... the general public is relatively stupid about fiances and when the big bankers told them they could afford that 500k home they believed them (albeit stupidly) it was predatory lending practices and then the subsequent packaging of risky assets and marketing them out as investments that caused the storm. |
This point has been argued and im getting the shaft because i believe that the person taking the loan should be equally if not more responsible then the person giving it. You agreed to a contract, read it and don't come crying when it comes to bite you in the ass. That simple.
I guess i'm the stupid one for thinking that stupid people shouldn't be responsible for their stupid decisions.
do i need to quote george bush again? lol |
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| Silky Johnson |
| So how does that link to welfare then? You can use that stats page I linked if it helps. ;) |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
So how does that link to welfare then? You can use that stats page I linked if it helps. ;) |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
So how does that link to welfare then? |
people living beyond their means. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| Bahaha, wow. |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
This point has been argued and im getting the shaft because i believe that the person taking the loan should be equally if not more responsible then the person giving it. You agreed to a contract, read it and don't come crying when it comes to bite you in the ass. That simple.
I guess i'm the stupid one for thinking that stupid people shouldn't be responsible for their stupid decisions.
do i need to quote george bush again? lol |
i blame idiots for being idiots all the time, however if this whole issue was a case of a moron suing the bank for forclosing on his home, i would side with the bank all day since he was an idiot for agreeing to the terms of the subprime mortgage. However, a single foreclosure doesnt cause a financial disaster for the whole bloody world.... marketing 000's of these products to unsuspecting idiots does because the banks basically set themselves up for a massive foreclosure situation. |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
people living beyond their means. |
remember that whole "teach a man to fish quote" you are not helping me here...... |
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| Capitalizt |
| quote: | Originally posted by colonelcrisp
The last one that really pisses me off is the people who are on welfare because they got laid off from their job but will not take any job because they feel it is below them. Im sorry but if i ever got laid off (which will never happen) i would rather flip burgers for 6 months while trying to find a new job in my field than ride the pogue while sitting on my couch and pretending to job junt for 47 weeks..... I know a bunch of former nortel employees who are doing just that... |
I know FOUR people that have done the same thing. Of course this is anecdotal evidence but I'm sure they aren't unique. Once fired, they don't bother looking for a job until unemployment nears it's end. These guys could easily have found a job doing customer service, tech support, collections, or any other office/clerical stuff..but they see no reason to try for it. It would mean going from $16/hr down to $10ish..so with a job they would be making less than they are with unemployment..The incentives for this type of welfare (and most other kinds) are perverse. Benefits were recently extended it to OVER A YEAR in the US, and you can apply for extensions online in most states..so you don't even need to go down to the unemployment office. You can do this every few weeks, and continue to receive 65-70%-ish of your previous pay in unemployment. This being the case why the f**k would someone want to work full time? If you get a job, the unemployment gets cut off immediately, which means you are working 40 hours per week and will be lucky to make more than you were making while enjoying 100% leisure time. I don't mind a bare minimum safety net to prevent people from starving, but the system today is far too generous. Getting 2/3rds of your salary for 60-70-80 weeks without doing a damn thing is insane. I can't blame people for taking advantage of the system. |
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