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Obama healthcare passes (pg. 8)
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| jonSun |
| quote: | Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_
Yes, it's Michael Moore, but it's pretty spot-on... |
yep. It's a step in the right direction but it's still a bill. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottaculous
If I was callous and looked only at my bottom line, I would not have an issue with this. I'm healthy as an ox and never made a medical claim besides annual check ups. Maybe I could get some tips from my friends across the aisle on how I should be more pissed off because I'm paying for their lifestyle. |
This sort of tack in the argument is one of the many reasons we've got such a screwed up healthcare bill, in the first place. The implication that supporters of the bill are supporters because their lifestyle choices make them more predisposed to illness is false and therefore the whole of your argument is moot. Never mind that you're not taking into account thousands of people who have been rejected for pre-existing conditions who legitimately thought they were in fit, physical condition to begin with; your argument, an ad hominem reductio, is indicative of the sort of Republican talking points that have served to make a mockery of the political process by obscuring the foundation of knowledge concerning the subject to begin with and therefor attempts to ensure that no two people can actually have any substantive discussion about what's happening, at all.
For all of the false comparison to Hitler and Chairman Mao, Obama and the Democrats have endured in passing this bill, these sorts of arguments are nothing short of rudimentary (yet effective) propagandist thought-reform. They negate the worthwhile nature of any argument by pumping an exchange so filled with non-sense that to redirect the argument to rational dialogue takes two or more paragraphs to untangle so much unholy bull that the person who has uttered it would surely be writhing in hell for his or her dishonesty were they to plop dead.
Perhaps you actually thought your argument was legitimate and factual and even honest, when it's fairly clear it's not. It's ethically warped, is what it is, but I've seen and read so many people spouting off non-sense like it that it would have to be a part of your conscious thinking. It's become like breathing. If you can't honestly reconcile the fact that what you're saying is complete and utter bull and you're permission of it, by virtue of the submission button, has everything to do with your own willful ambition to scuttle a legitimate debate - THAT is thought reform.
Ergo you're either a willful liar who's seeking to obscure rational dialogue or a submissive cult-member completely lacking any self-awareness. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
I think that The17sss confuses what the job of a representative is. They go and vote their personal choice. They were elected to make decisions based on their sole personal agenda because thats what their constituents believed was best for them. If thats no longer the case then they will get voted out in the next election and they will find someone else.
We do not live in a direct democracy, so sorry, the immediate will of the people does not and should not affect anything.
None of these representatives did anything wrong. You could easily turn around and spin the republican argument that they defied the will of the people by saying that republicans didn't vote for the bill when some of their constituents were for it. It doesn't matter. They can listen to their constituents, but they do not have to do vote the way they want them to. Thats not their jobs, their job is to vote their personal choice. Thats what they campaigned on, and thats what people expect them to do.
Letting people immediately have influence over the process of this country would be a bad thing. Most people in this country, on any side, are reactionary idiots with little to no education on political subjects, or even the ability to read or write coherently. Heck, most of them can barely form a coherent verbal sentence! |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Letting people immediately have influence over the process of this country would be a bad thing. Most people in this country, on any side, are reactionary idiots with little to no education on political subjects, or even the ability to read or write coherently. Heck, most of them can barely form a coherent verbal sentence! |
Gosh, you're such a liberal elitist! :mad: |
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| Scottaculous |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
This sort of tack in the argument is one of the many reasons we've got such a screwed up healthcare bill, in the first place. The implication that supporters of the bill are supporters because their lifestyle choices make them more predisposed to illness is false and therefore the whole of your argument is moot. Never mind that you're not taking into account thousands of people who have been rejected for pre-existing conditions who legitimately thought they were in fit, physical condition to begin with; your argument, an ad hominem reductio, is indicative of the sort of Republican talking points that have served to make a mockery of the political process by obscuring the foundation of knowledge concerning the subject to begin with and therefor attempts to ensure that no two people can actually have any substantive discussion about what's happening, at all.
For all of the false comparison to Hitler and Chairman Mao, Obama and the Democrats have endured in passing this bill, these sorts of arguments are nothing short of rudimentary (yet effective) propagandist thought-reform. They negate the worthwhile nature of any argument by pumping an exchange so filled with non-sense that to redirect the argument to rational dialogue takes two or more paragraphs to untangle so much unholy bull that the person who has uttered it would surely be writhing in hell for his or her dishonesty were they to plop dead.
Perhaps you actually thought your argument was legitimate and factual and even honest, when it's fairly clear it's not. It's ethically warped, is what it is, but I've seen and read so many people spouting off non-sense like it that it would have to be a part of your conscious thinking. It's become like breathing. If you can't honestly reconcile the fact that what you're saying is complete and utter bull and you're permission of it, by virtue of the submission button, has everything to do with your own willful ambition to scuttle a legitimate debate - THAT is thought reform.
Ergo you're either a willful liar who's seeking to obscure rational dialogue or a submissive cult-member completely lacking any self-awareness. |
Relax man, we're on the same side. :toocool: |
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| Scottaculous |
| quote: | Originally posted by jonSun
yep. It's a step in the right direction but it's still a bill. |
This is the crux of it. It is my hope there will be more honest dialog on how to further shape the bill in lowering costs, offering better coverage, simplifying the wording, etc.. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottaculous
Relax man, we're on the same side. :toocool: |
Very sorry. Monumentally ty day and I shouldn't have posted what I did, directed at you. |
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| bas |
| Just FYI, ghezumtuefeulsuyeshzhzhchittybangbang has a friend that thinks the healthcare plan is set up so that in 2014 the government can unleash some secret supervirus on the unsuspecting masses. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by bas
Just FYI, ghezumtuefeulsuyeshzhzhchittybangbang has a friend that thinks the healthcare plan is set up so that in 2014 the government can unleash some secret supervirus on the unsuspecting masses. |
Everyone in conspiracy theory circles knows that's a diversion the alphabet soup has conjured to make us believe that we've actually got a future past December 21, 2012...
When FEMA rounds us up everyone who won't get a 666 tattoo and a microchip implant required to buy and sell goods and services; and transports us on secret rail-way cars to internment camps. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
This is why I am in full support of replacing democracies with meritocracies. To think that ********'s vote is of equal weight to mine or the17sss' is equal to OCC_Rider's makes me want to bash my head against a wall. |
man i miss occ :(
| quote: | Originally posted by osterzone
Lol @ people like Clovis in this thread supporting the bill strictly because he's liberal/supports Obama. You can tell this because he's not mentioned a single provision in the current bill, and has decided just to bash the other party and say "yeah well, we needed change!!!11!1".
So pothead, support this:
$10 billion in the bill is going to hire 16,500 new IRS agents to make sure people are paying for healthcare, or else they will be fined. So not only is the size of government increasing, but we're going to waste $10 billion in taxpayer money to make sure that people are paying for something that they should have a right to choose in in the first place.
Clovis here are some additional rules on how to answer this post:
1) Refer to the fact above
2) Do not hit 'submit' if your response doesn't do just that. |
you suck donkey dick. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by osterzone
Lol @ people like Clovis in this thread supporting the bill strictly because he's liberal/supports Obama. You can tell this because he's not mentioned a single provision in the current bill, and has decided just to bash the other party and say "yeah well, we needed change!!!11!1".
So pothead, support this:
$10 billion in the bill is going to hire 16,500 new IRS agents to make sure people are paying for healthcare, or else they will be fined. So not only is the size of government increasing, but we're going to waste $10 billion in taxpayer money to make sure that people are paying for something that they should have a right to choose in in the first place.
Clovis here are some additional rules on how to answer this post:
1) Refer to the fact above
2) Do not hit 'submit' if your response doesn't do just that. |
Yeah, I don't have a problem with that, nobody else really has any reason to either.
If I drive a car in California I am required to have auto insurance. Not really much different than that.
If you want to argue the practical implications of that line item, we can do that to, although I don't really think it's in my interest to sit here and explain to you why, on the WHOLE, this bill is going to help far more people than it might inconvenience, and that there are few, if any, people in this country who DO NOT want some form of healthcare. Do you have health insurance? |
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| jupiterone |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
this bill is going to help far more people than it might inconvenience, and that there are few, if any, people in this country who DO NOT want some form of healthcare. Do you have health insurance? |
+1 |
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