|
Depression and intelligence (pg. 5)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Lomeli |
| The cure for depression. |
|
|
| d_Verge |
Depression is so 2009.
/Bruno |
|
|
| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
Is it only intelligent, introspective and self-aware people who get depression? Or does anyone know a superficial, jock type who suffers from it? |
The only person I knew who has ever killed himself was, on the surface, the epitome of a "superficial jock type": spent lots of time in the gym, always went out drinking, loved to fight, loved banter, playing sports and so on. Nobody ever had the slightest idea he was depressed until he was found dead.
I can't claim to know any facts here, because the only head I've ever lived in is my own, but this idea that intelligence makes you depressed is mostly a myth. As Fledz said, most people are not "depressed" at all, they're just unhappy. Miserable intellectuals staring down the barrel of the uncaring infinite are nowhere near depression, they're just suffering from existential angst. The ideas that leave smart people glum are just that: ideas.
It's easy to look at "unintelligent" people who just don't consider the big upsetting ideas about life and think they're more cheerful for not thinking about them, but it's condescending and arrogant to assume they feel less pain as a result. And, quite frankly, I may have often felt glum about things the less switched-on person might never consider, but I've never had therapy, never taken meds, never been diagnosed with anything, never seen a councillor, never self-harmed, never had a breakdown or a panic attack or a self-destructive drug bender. People often label me a cynic or a miserable bastard, but I seem to be able to withstand life a lot better than a great many people who apparently don't think about things.
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
understanding is total acceptance of the present moment. |
No it isn't.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/understanding
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/understand |
|
|
| MrJiveBoJingles |
| I don't think depression has much to do with intelligence one way or another. And I think intelligent people are mostly depressed by the same concrete things as anyone else: no friends, no money, poor relationships, poor health, no goals, no challenges, boring routines. Not by philosophical problems. |
|
|
| noikeee |
I'm afraid this thread is suffering again from people-who-take-their-own-experiences-and-generalize-it-to-everything syndrome. You could say that about quite a few posters here...
I would tend to agree with JBJ above, find it hard to believe people get depressed because they get pissed off at the meaning of life. People get depressed because their brain is not working well and/or their life is not satisfactory. Of course you could then argue that what is satisfactory is relative, but you don't need to be intelligent to have high expectations, neither to have a lower threshold of how much of life experiences you can take before crumbling into the negativism spiral of depression. Whatever definition of intelligence you use, be it the more-IQ kind of intelligence, or the both street-smart-and-knowledgeable kind of intelligence. |
|
|
| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ania_xox
I often find myself wondering whether the pursuit of knowledge is an evil one.
Those who read and watch and listen with a sort of snarky self-absorbed cynicism - what are they achieving?
Do we learn simply to isolate ourselves from those who stand outside our scope of knowledge?
There is a staunch difference between reading the newspaper every day to stay "in the know" - and feeling a compelling need to "keep up"
The more you know, the more censure you feel towards those who don't share your knowledge. Whether or not this factors into your opinion of someone, it subconsciously shapes your perception of them.
I try to contextualize this by applying it to my life and my conclusions are completely unclear.
I have only discovered one thing about the pursuit of knowledge of which I feel completely sure - and even still, it makes sense only in the context of my life and can therefore be easily dismissed as mere musings:
I feel passionate about my academic pursuits and I mean that in the most pure and non-pretentious way. The things I learn about communication, language and linguistics make me feel englightened in a way that connects me to the rest of the world. This knowledge is thus coupled with the confidence that I am not alone, that we are fundamentally designed to connect with others.
What about someone who pursues studies in Astronomy? Philosophy? Anthropology?
He goes to bed with ideas of anarchy swirling through his head. He observes people on the subway and judges them according to Darwinian principles. He goes to work every day plagued with ideas of the meaningless of our existence in comparison with how sublime the universe is in its greatest and most supreme degree.
I imagine a sort of desolate loneliness accompanied by extended amounts of such knowledge. |
That post said absolutely nothing.
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
i wouldn't automatically label clever or smart people as 'intelligent' or 'self-aware'. |
Neither would I, hence my original post using three adjectives to describe the obvious personality type I'm on about. What do you think the difference between intelligent and smart is, anyway?
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
the original meaning of 'intelligence' means ability to understand. people who understand are rarely confused or depressed. |
The original meaning of mundane was earth. What's your point?
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
IMO all 'knowledge' is illusory, egotistical, fleeting, and frivolous except 'self-knowledge', which could be also called 'knowing about life'
i went to ivy league school but i don't consider anything i 'studied' to be actual education. what i learned came between the classes, in the relationships i had with other people, more to do with what i found i didn't like than what i did.
the only true education and teacher is life itself |
Why bother going to school at all then? Why bother with any education? Why not live at home and never learn to read or do maths? Surely by your ridiculous definition, living within a community and experiencing 'relationships' would be the only 'true' education?
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
No, I believe that 'smart' people can definitely be ignorant. My definition of 'intelligence' is the exact opposite of 'ignorance', that's the only lapse in communication we are having. |
Intelligence is not the opposite of ignorance. To use a very specific definition, intelligence is the ability to work things out for one's self using the available evidence.
The opposite of ignorance is rote learning, which even the dumbest bastard can achieve with enough practice.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
The only person I knew who has ever killed himself was, on the surface, the epitome of a "superficial jock type": spent lots of time in the gym, always went out drinking, loved to fight, loved banter, playing sports and so on. Nobody ever had the slightest idea he was depressed until he was found dead. |
Okay, that was the point of this thread, to find if any examples existed.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I can't claim to know any facts here, because the only head I've ever lived in is my own, but this idea that intelligence makes you depressed is mostly a myth. As Fledz said, most people are not "depressed" at all, they're just unhappy. Miserable intellectuals staring down the barrel of the uncaring infinite are nowhere near depression, they're just suffering from existential angst. The ideas that leave smart people glum are just that: ideas. |
How can you claim that others aren't depressed when, as you said, you've only lived in your own head?
As per your statement below, I've never seen a councillor, never taken medication, never self-harmed, never had a panic attack or broken down. However, I can say with 100% certainty that I've been depressed. It runs in my family and my sister has a bad case of it. I can also tell you that during this time I never suffered from 'existential angst'. I never worried about death, or the meaning of my existence. I was simply numb, and couldn't enjoy any activity that was put in front of me.
I don't disagree that like ADD, depression is over-diagnosed and blown out of proportion, but for you to call what is for some people a crippling problem 'existential angst' is just as base as calling a dyslexic person stupid.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
It's easy to look at "unintelligent" people who just don't consider the big upsetting ideas about life and think they're more cheerful for not thinking about them, but it's condescending and arrogant to assume they feel less pain as a result. And, quite frankly, I may have often felt glum about things the less switched-on person might never consider, but I've never had therapy, never taken meds, never been diagnosed with anything, never seen a councillor, never self-harmed, never had a breakdown or a panic attack or a self-destructive drug bender. People often label me a cynic or a miserable bastard, but I seem to be able to withstand life a lot better than a great many people who apparently don't think about things. |
As per the bolded part, you're clearly not grasping the true nature of depression. It doesn't involve pain, only sheer apathy. Also, in my experience it has nothing to do with contemplating the 'big upsetting ideas about life'. It's not like people wake up one day and think "I'm not smart enough to make a decent career for myself, I may as well kill myself." People kill themselves because life seems entirely pointless, not insurmountable. Of course, there are people who kill themselves after losing a job or having a bad breakup, but experience tells me that:
a) That person is not depressed, only traumatised.
b) Was already depressed and lost the only thing they thought was worth living for. |
|
|
| Meat187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
And I think intelligent people are mostly depressed by the same concrete things as anyone else: no friends, no money, poor relationships, poor health, no goals, no challenges, boring routines. Not by philosophical problems. |
For this case many people have already posted the perfect and correct solution: a radical change. The more radical the better. |
|
|
| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
|
You seem to be willfully stupid sometimes. This thread started after you'd read JBJ's thread and directly quoted Hal's post from that thread. How the can you use that thread as a touch-stone for this discussion and then unironically type out a sentence like this:
| quote: | | It's not like people wake up one day and think "I'm not smart enough to make a decent career for myself, I may as well kill myself." |
Hal is clearly talking about existential ennui. The mind boggles. |
|
|
| djhaziel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Accepting only the present is a dangerous place to be. |
Not true mate
The present will always be the ultimate reality , why dwell in the past when it's already gone and does not exist anymore? , why dwell in the future when it's uncertain ? |
|
|
| wing |
| quote: | Originally posted by GoSpeedGo!
mourning/being depressed is such a waste of time; |
Mourning will never dissipate because most view death as a horrible thing, and why not.I agree though mourning can be a waste of time, but it can help those recover from depression, eventually. That's why its so important to me that I know my friends/family's outlook on death and the afterlife. It leaves me at peace knowing they're ready for whatever comes their way, so I can smile about the great times when the time comes opposed to mourning...eh. People have their own ways to deal with .
| quote: | Originally posted by GoSpeedGo!
daydreaming is such a waste of time; |
Get the out :wtf:
Our world is built up of ideas extracted from daydreaming and dreams. You can't be serious so I'm skipping this. If you are, you need to let your mind wander about. What the :wtf:.
| quote: | Originally posted by GoSpeedGo!
it only feeds your ego, gives you unrealistic outlook on things
|
You obviously havent taken into a account how people CAN eventually DROP their ego through their own progression of thought
...What's realistic buddy? Is flying a plane in the sky realistic? how about a mission to the moon/mars? invisible cloaks? cloning? subatomic particles? How about the earth being spherical and not flat? or how the Earth revolves around the Sun? Galileo had no choice but to state the Sun revolved around the Earth otherwise he would've gotten it bad by the Catholic Church
All of these were deemed unrealistic at one point in time but look at where we are now, and we'll only continue to bring the unrealistic into our reality because maybe our reality isn't as sensible as YOU THINK.
Please daydream for your sake, and the people around you. I'd tell you to get your hands on Psychedelics, but you sound like the type that would jump out of a window :toothless
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
but this idea that intelligence makes you depressed |
I honestly think this can be flipped in certain cases. Depression could eventually lead to reverie, if the pot of personality and life experience has all of the needed ingredients to get there, but it can also lead down a million other paths. the one usually attached to it is suicide. :nervous: |
|
|
| Ian |
for what it's worth
I don't think there's a direct correlation between depression and intelligence but there is certainly a big linkage in some instances. As many people know, I've had a lot of serious depression issues and generally my mind is in overdrive all of the time, and it stems from being really intelligent imo. I think about things on levels that people with less intelligence do, goto places they don't think exist and can't help it, overanalysing things and often just want it to all slow down. I'd love at times to feel nothing, like many people can, and in my experience, those who are less intelligent are generally the majority who can do that easily. Maybe it's a lack of ambition but they don't think out the consequences of things like actions because they can't process them.
As people have said though, there is a big difference between unhappy and depressed. Over here, too many doctors hand out meds like candy and it doesn't help because it causes many problems, psychologically on those who don't need it, and on things like the health system in general.
However, the people I know who are really depressed or have been in the past, are generally what i'd describe as being above average or higher in intelligence. Many turn to drugs, legal or not as a way to shut the mind off, to dumb down in many ways to stop the whole thinking thing. There's no way to prove any of it however as whatever 'rules' there would be, would always have exceptions to. I think that what I understand is that we can't understand everything, people are just too unique to do that, it's not like studying a more simple animal with ritualistic tendencies all of the time but adding in so many factors. Social, Upbringing, where they live, what they have to deal with, stress levels & so many other things. |
|
|
|
|
