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Joris Voorn is on fire (pg. 6)
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| Kismet7 |
| In the 70s Prog Rock and age transposition example I mentioned, just like house came from disco, prog rock ideas were intitially superimposed onto darker and moodier 4/4 club music, which developed into the progressive structure in EDM. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
In the 70s Prog Rock and age transposition example I mentioned, just like house came from disco, prog rock ideas were intitially superimposed onto darker and moodier 4/4 club music, which developed into the progressive structure in EDM. |
70s prog rock influenced just about every kind of music that came after it. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
"a diluting" or "superimposition" is not a structure, but a methodology. |
That's because those words are processes, verbs. They are part of clauses with nouns in, nouns which pertain to types of structure. Is this getting through? |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
That's because those words are processes, verbs. They are part of clauses with nouns in, nouns which pertain to types of structure. Is this getting through? |
you're a literary person - examine what I wrote:
"a diluting of a groove-based substrate through the superimposition of a traditional song structure"
1.) the methodology is a process of dilution. ("diluting")
2.) the diluted is the "groove based substrate"
3.) the diluter is the superimposed form of a "traditional song structure".
4.) this doesn't mean the result is a traditional song, or that the process is a structure.
how is "dilution" a structure? it's a process, as well as "superimposition". you are so eager to argue something here that you are creating phantom arguments in my words. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
Diluting is a metaphor. I have to guess at exactly how you dilute a groove with a structure, because it's not like the two are obviously equatable. I'm forced to imagine it involves applying that structure to the track, and when you say a "fairly defined structural concept" that strongly implies a clearly observable, perhaps rigid structure.
I mean, I don't want to draw up a definition of groove because it would do a ridiculously anal retentive injustice to what groove is, but for me a track can very, very easily have both a groove and a structure, and so super-imposing a structure onto a groove means arranging that groove into that particular layout. Which leads me back to where I started.
But once again, this isn't really important. Not only is your definition vague to the point of being meaningless (if the process is a sliding scale that can result in a wide range of possible outcomes, then every track is "progressive" which makes it redundant) but it isn't what the term originally meant. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Diluting is a metaphor. I have to guess at exactly how you dilute a groove with a structure, because it's not like the two are obviously equatable. I'm forced to imagine it involves applying that structure to the track, and when you say a "fairly defined structural concept" that strongly implies a clearly observable, perhaps rigid structure.
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It's not a metaphor. That's what the word means. "to diminish the strength, flavor, or brilliance of by admixture"
and honestly i thought that song structures were fairly defined in all the examples you posted.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I mean, I don't want to draw up a definition of groove because it would do a ridiculously anal retentive injustice to what groove is, but for me a track can very, very easily have both a groove and a structure, and so super-imposing a structure onto a groove means arranging that groove into that particular layout. Which leads me back to where I started.
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yes, lots of music has both a groove and a narrative structure. now we're on the same page.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
But once again, this isn't really important. Not only is your definition vague to the point of being meaningless (if the process is a sliding scale that can result in a wide range of possible outcomes, then every track is "progressive" which makes it redundant) but it isn't what the term originally meant. |
yes, many tracks can be somewhat progressive, some more than others. that's what i've said this entire discussion. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
It's not a metaphor. That's what the word means. "to diminish the strength, flavor, or brilliance of by admixture"
and honestly i thought that song structures were fairly defined in all the examples you posted. |
But you don't mix groove and structure. Groove exists within structure. And what the is a song structure to you? Because I don't hear any bits that could be identified as verses, choruses, middle eights, apart from the Fuzzy Logic track.
| quote: | | yes, many tracks can be somewhat progressive, some more than others. that's what i've said this entire discussion. |
Sorry, I tend not to use meaningless, redundant definitions. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
But you don't mix groove and structure. Groove exists within structure. And what the is a song structure to you? Because I don't hear any bits that could be identified as verses, choruses, middle eights, apart from the Fuzzy Logic track.
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structure refers to compositional structure. groove does not need to be composed. song structure to me is a composed, narrative structure. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| So are you talking about "vertical" polyphonic structure as opposed to horizontal, narrative structure? |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
So are you talking about "vertical" polyphonic structure as opposed to horizontal, narrative structure? |
i suppose you could see it like that. but bear in mind that 'opposed' doesn't necessarily mean exclusive here. |
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| PhilBxR |
| Prog is not a word I would associate with anything Voorn. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by PhilBxR
Prog is not a word I would associate with anything Voorn. |
well that's great for you, and mistaken.
he makes some more proggy music and some less proggy music, get over it. relative to many detroit techno producers, he is proggier. |
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