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Chiropractor - Scam or Legit? (pg. 10)
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
Exactly.
The problem with the natural selection argument is that it's based on an oversimplified and outdated biological model.
Because no vaccine offers perfect protection, a person who doesn't vaccinate increases the risk of illness for every single person they will come into contact with their entire life. The population as a whole is more vulnerable, not just the idiot who made the decision not to vaccinate and their offspring.
Of course, we could get the best of both worlds by simply executing people who decline to vaccine. That would yield both the narrow benefits of eliminating that stupidity from the gene pool and the broader benefit of ensuring that they don't stick around to spread disease. Something like that is too sensible to ever be put into practice, unfortunately. |
Or else, you could do exactly what Brazil did ;)
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Bad thinking is contagious. The lack of respect for evidence that leads people to believe in rather benign, mildly goofy stuff is also what leads others to believe in not-so-benign stuff.
Compare, for example, people who believe in prayer as an addition to ordinary medicine and people who believe in prayer as a complete substitute for ordinary medicine. The two are not all that far apart. |
And this is the problem: How/Where can you stop it?
Whenever I try to argue against these sorts of religious quackery, I'm faced with the inevitable Christian Platonism that is so convenient to believers ("You're too rational and you can't see the Ultimate Truth, you have to use your heart and your mind together, and remember God is the only way to Peace, Love, Unicorns, and Rave music - you'll see the Light someday!"). And this alternative nonsense seems to work the same way: It's covered by a layer of "happy thoughts", treating people "holistically" and/or "as a whole organism, uniting mind and body"... which is both cute and troublesome. |
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| NeoPhono |
I'm wondering if people are considering "evidence-based medicine" and "Western medicine" as synonymous.
I have no problem with people seeking out "alternative" forms of treatment as long as I know it's not going to hurt them. The "hurt" can be in many forms though; medical, emotional, economic. I'll always be tainted by having watched a young mother of three die of stomach cancer three years after she decided to forego CURATIVE surgery in lieu of herbs and crystals.
When it comes to chiropractors, if a person thinks it helps, has realistic expectations and doesn't mind the cost, more power to them. If they think they'll get some sort of definitive cure or lasting treatment, I'd question them and the evidence behind their decision-making. Doctors (MDs/DOs) have some wiggle room when it comes to how they diagnose and treat a patient, but there are guidelines in place for what the doctor ultimately decides to do in order to make them accountable. I don't see that in "alternative" medicine. A chiropractor can tell you your neck is "too straight" or "too bent" and that it needs treatment "x," but without a set of evidence-based guidelines behind the diagnoses and treatment, how can I have any trust in what is done? You can argue outcomes, but that's a logical fallacy and anecdotal.
tl:dr - Evidence-based medicine will always trump "alternative" medicine, but as long as it doesn't hurt, knock yourself out. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
treating people "holistically" and/or "as a whole organism, uniting mind and body"... which is both cute and troublesome. |
Uh, actually no it isn't. The mind body connection is undeniable. A person's state of wellness encompasses more than just their physical ailments. It includes mental, emotional, and - for many people - spiritual well-being, and you cannot treat a person's conditions in isolation. Everything is linked, and the path to healing requires treating a person's mind as well as their body. |
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| Ang ' ela_ie |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
Uh, actually no it isn't. The mind body connection is undeniable. A person's state of wellness encompasses more than just their physical ailments. It includes mental, emotional, and - for many people - spiritual well-being, and you cannot treat a person's conditions in isolation. Everything is linked, and the path to healing requires treating a person's mind as well as their body. |
Word. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
Uh, actually no it isn't. The mind body connection is undeniable. |
Precisely why this isn't a differential. Ordinary medicine pays as much attention to this as this quackery, as far as I know, which means this attractive is just like saying your bottle of super doper water has less calories than the water offered by your rivals :p |
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| Silky Johnson |
| Well then don't say it's cute and troublesome then. :mad: |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
Well then don't say it's cute and troublesome then. :mad: |
I should've made my argument clearer, I'll take care next time :D |
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| Silky Johnson |
| Yeah you do that. *shakes fist* |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
and - for many people - spiritual well-being |
Mental disease is indeed serious. |
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| Arbiter |
| There ain't no such thing as spiritual well-being, because there ain't no spirits to be well. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
There ain't no such thing as spiritual well-being, because there ain't no spirits to be well. |
You won't believe how many times I've had this discussion... people passionately believe they can see without eyes and a brain to process the images! |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
You won't believe how many times I've had this discussion... people passionately believe they can see without eyes and a brain to process the images! |
Then they shouldn't mind you taking their eyes. |
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