Originally posted by JonDC
I think the reason is probably because most classics nights are just an excuse for lazy over-the-hill DJs like John Kelly to play Fire Wire and numerous other old tunes in no particular order. I've only been to a handful to trance classics nights that were remotely inspirational.
in Jersey....CLassics nites are a dime a dozen
they are the cheapest theme night but pull in the most crowds
Bierheld
Why would there be?
The term "classics" itself implies that they're suppose to be more special then anything else, this has to do with how influentual they were at the time. However, that does not mean they were never surpassed in quality. And there is no reason they would make for better partying material unless you are of the kind that can only connect with music they have heard a thousand times before.
If it's just old music itself you're wondering about. The answer is even simpler: The sounds went out of fashion.
PivotTechno
quote:
Originally posted by Bierheld
If it's just old music itself you're wondering about. The answer is even simpler: The sounds went out of fashion.
Originally posted by Ishkur
Most people misinterpret classic to mean "old stuff that's popular"
Classic, non?
SYSTEM-J
While the term "classic" is massively over-used and emotionally loaded, I'd agree with Bierheld that a classic was a popular or influential track. Something that was great and old but not widely known is a "forgotten classic", "cult classic" and so on. Classics nights usually have affiliations with well known clubs or DJs from the area, the crowd tend to be older and the vibe tends to be different.
There are still specialists nights out there devoted to playing old styles, such as classic dub or acid house, but you less commonly see them marketed as "classics nights", the DJs tend to be unknowns who've been crate digging and the crowd is often younger.
There are some classics that will always be played, whether it's a retro night or not. Tracks like Energy Flash or Voodoo Ray will never become unfashionable. They're crowd movers, they fit into a wide variety of sets, and 20 year olds go just as nuts as 35 year olds when they hear them. Those tracks are the biggest classics of all.
Bierheld
quote:
Originally posted by PivotTechno Nice generalization.
Doesn't matter. Even old music that went under the radar is no more interesting then new music that went under the radar unless it has a sound that isn't made anymore because it's no longer fashionable. If you play that you're catering to a niche audience. Hence it doesn't happen as much.
Ishkur
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
There are some classics that will always be played, whether it's a retro night or not. Tracks like Energy Flash or Voodoo Ray will never become unfashionable. They're crowd movers, they fit into a wide variety of sets, and 20 year olds go just as nuts as 35 year olds when they hear them. Those tracks are the biggest classics of all.
There's a club here that has an oldskool disco night, and they have a moratorium for their DJs: No Beegees, no Village People. Under any circumstances.
The DJs themselves sometimes go one further and have refused to play ANYTHING that might be found on a "Golden Hits of the 70s" collection.
They play only underground disco. And it is so so much better.
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
There's a club here that has an oldskool disco night, and they have a moratorium for their DJs: No Beegees, no Village People. Under any circumstances.
The DJs themselves sometimes go one further and have refused to play ANYTHING that might be found on a "Golden Hits of the 70s" collection.
They play only underground disco. And it is so so much better.
The thing is 'classic' is totally relative.
I regularly attend the body and soul and similar parties here in nyc which consist in large part of many of the original members of the paradise garage and mancuso's loft - 'let it happen' by vangelis might be considered a full fledged classic there, but in other circles a 'cult classic'. The beegees wouldn't even be on anyone's radar. 'I Feel Love' would be a classic that no one ever wants to hear again. At these parties there are always a few classics, but you will also get the rare and overlooked stuff, and even some new stuff that feels like it should have been played back then!
I mean when discussing electronic music, isn't basically everything a 'cult classic'?
Here is a list of 'classics' for instance compiled for the paradise garage: (you probably already know this, but for the sake of others) http://www.jahsonic.com/Coqui.html
The tracks on this list really vary in terms of how well known they are.
I disagree fundamentally with SYSTEM-J that classics depend on popularity when they were played out. Lots of tracks became classics ex post facto, which may have only seldom been played out when they were first available.
I think the definition of classic is more something that is old but still remains popular, rather than something that is old and was popular.
My personal preference for old school nights is to hear things I've never heard before, that I will probably never hear again, that probably were rarely even played back then too, and a couple I know well that aren't too overplayed. There are only a handful of DJs doing that, just because it takes real dedication to the artform.
TheOneIRunTo
quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
DJs are not interested in playing obscure, interesting or creative music.
Djs are not interested in playing interesting music... Really? Which Djs are you talking about champ? Surely you didn't just throw a blanket statement there...
quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur They're only there to play their own tracks and remixes, their friends tracks and remixes, and stuff released on their record label.
They are not DJs. They are music promo whores.
Yeah I get it they are not there because the want to promote good music build a fanbase and make some money.. you know get some more gigs and stuff... they just want to play their friends stuff... because there is just such good money selling Tranz records mp3s in 2011 right?
Promo whores? There are Djs that fit that description you are trying ot paint sir. They are called TOP-40 Djs
I mean if you are going to be a promo whore... the small time nickel and dime ... ;)
quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
As a club/music consumer, your responsibility should be to stop paying attention to these turds, and go to where the music is best and the spamming is at a minimum.
Why thank you it is awfully generous of you to let me know what my ''responsibilities'' are as a... ''club consumer''...
:haha:
I get it i get it it is all good fun ish even when you get retarded on people please don't stop I know you won't.. be careful though system-J is fighting for that spot...
As far as the advice to the Djs... hmmm thanks of the tips and everything.... not sure how these stand in the face of reality but it is all love bro after all this is tranceaddict where you are more than welcome to go on about anything you like be it fact fiction or some personal agenda only you can understand ;)
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
I disagree fundamentally with SYSTEM-J that classics depend on popularity when they were played out. Lots of tracks became classics ex post facto, which may have only seldom been played out when they were first available.
How exactly can a track be popular without being played out? Obviously some tracks get picked up years after their initial release, but I never stipulated that the popularity had to be at the time of release. With that said, if someone plucked a disco track from 1978 from obscurity and put it in a commercial, leading to an explosion in popularity in the present day, it's not a classic just because it's from 1978 and everyone's playing it in 2011. So I'd agree that the idea of longevity is important.
Ishkur
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
I mean when discussing electronic music, isn't basically everything a 'cult classic'?
No.
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
No.
My point is, a 'classic' to someone within a subculture are likely going to be considered a 'cult classic' to someone outside the subculture.
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
How exactly can a track be popular without being played out? Obviously some tracks get picked up years after their initial release, but I never stipulated that the popularity had to be at the time of release. With that said, if someone plucked a disco track from 1978 from obscurity and put it in a commercial, leading to an explosion in popularity in the present day, it's not a classic just because it's from 1978 and everyone's playing it in 2011. So I'd agree that the idea of longevity is important.
I was responding to this statement:
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
While the term "classic" is massively over-used and emotionally loaded, I'd agree with Bierheld that a classic was a popular or influential track.
All I am saying is that 'influence' with these tracks has a tendency to be retrospective and the modern day respect a 'classic' demands isn't necessarily the same level of respect or perceived influence that a track had when it was new. I think classics have to be somewhat popular and appreciated at that time, but like you said, longevity is important.
Additionally, I think the classic is subject to the whims of various media. Classics often have mythological status, especially within a subgenre. (cults thrive on myths) So with the publishing of a book, or the making of a documentary, and even the retrospective publishing of certain mixsets and tracklist by influential deejays (especially if they are labeled to contain 'classics') - certain gatekeepers control what we consider to be classic. At this point we can also discuss if there is a difference between 'classic' and 'canonical'. I don't think classic needs to be canonical. Maybe we are using one term to mean two different things. I think the 'canon' is the authoritative, media-driven record of what is influential or important, but classic can be a relative term that we apply to both canonical tracks and tracks that are rare digs.
I'd say that canonical tracks are part and parcel of a rigid history, but classics can be born all the time, as they are discovered and resound with different time periods. And occasionally they can come to influence the canon.
Ishkur
nefardec, you have this amazing ability to introduce completely irrelevant nonsense to a topic without even addressing the issue at hand and still think it's somehow pertinent. How on earth do you do that?
