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Pursuing your dreams/goals and achieving them. (pg. 4)
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| Intellekshual |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Do you really think the environment doesn't count? |
*raises hand* I think it counts tremendously. Knowing the right people, being in the right place at the right time etc.. is all part "luck", in my opinion. :D |
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| Silky Johnson |
No, of course it counts. How many times do I have to say OF COURSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS and why, when every time I pose a question to you guys, do we have to end up focusing on the exceptions? I'm aware of all those externalities for 's sake, but those are really ing obvious factors that contribute to why people cannot achieve certain things, so why the would I discuss it? If that's what I wanted to talk about, I would have just said that.
For smart people you sure dig some bull retarded stuff out what I have said. |
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| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by wienerschnitzel
:gsmile: |
Yeah, well your accidents are cute! (not that they were actually accidents, just saying :p)
While we have you here, how have your individual goals changed as a result of having kids? Would you say that in a sense their goals are now yours? |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Meat187
Jenny, you're saying that if Nou made it his goal to be the most popular COR poster and worked really hard he could achieve it. Think about that one again.
Edit: lol, I noticed I said the same thing as Lira. Only in a way that's not tl;dr and altogether more awesome. :p |
Obviously one's goals must be congruent with their actual abilities. :o |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
No, of course it counts. How many times do I have to say OF COURSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS and why, when every time I pose a question to you guys, do we have to end up focusing on the exceptions? |
Oi, easy there, tigress!
The reason why I'm bringing this up is because I do not think that's the exception - rather, it's just as important as the internalities (to coin a neologism here). You cited people who obviously had definitely problems with their attitude, but I'd say their attitude could well be the product of a problematic environment some (if not most) of the time.
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
I'm aware of all those externalities for 's sake, but those are really ing obvious factors that contribute to why people cannot achieve certain things, so why the would I discuss it? If that's what I wanted to talk about, I would have just said that. |
Not all of it is obvious - quite on the contrary. What counts in the environment and what doesn't? I'd say that's just as worthy of discussion as someone's attitude.
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
For smart people you sure dig some bull retarded stuff out what I have said. |
No, I'm not "digging some bull retarded stuff", I'm just pointing out that you can't talk about the topic you want without taking everything into consideration and I'm taking the discussion to a level which I consider more interesting.
What's the problem in doing this?! |
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| Silky Johnson |
I don't find it more interesting at all. I find it obvious and beside the point that I'm making. It's a conversation about how similar people with goals/aspirations/whatever can achieve totally different results. What is it about the person who succeeds that makes them succeed, and what is it about a similar person that makes them unable to succeed?
Like, you didn't even specifically address the ing question I asked for 's sake. Any opportunity you can to blather on about some ing boring philosophical , you will. And you always manage to throw in some thinly veiled egotistical reference to yourself. YAWN. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Intellekshual
*raises hand* I think it counts tremendously. Knowing the right people, being in the right place at the right time etc.. is all part "luck", in my opinion. :D |
I would argue that this is more a complicating factor rather than an insurmountable barrier. Having good "luck" certainly helps but if you don't get those advantages and opportunities coming to you then one needs to find a way to seek them out. For most people this is something that can be overcome. Of course there are those for whom no amount of effort will ever make up for a lack of resource or opportunity but those are the destitue living in such deplorable conditions where mearly surviving is a lofty goal to strive for, certainly not for the privileged of the developed world, whom I can only assume Jenny had in mind when she posed the initial question. |
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| ziptnf |
| Chill out there Jenny. He sorta has a point. Someone's environment can effect the way they approach their goals. You seem to be only really concerned with people who already have the opportunity to achieve great goals, and Marcus is concerned with all people in all environments. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| There is no such thing as luck! |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Chill out there Jenny. He sorta has a point. Someone's environment can effect the way they approach their goals. You seem to be only really concerned with people who already have the opportunity to achieve great goals, and Marcus is concerned with all people in all environments. |
Yeah well who started the thread? Me or Lira? That's right, I did. And I know he has a point. A point I was never ing talking about. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
I don't find it more interesting at all. I find it obvious and beside the point that I'm making. It's a conversation about how similar people with goals/aspirations/whatever can achieve totally different results. What is it about the person who succeeds that makes them succeed, and what is it about a similar person that makes them unable to succeed? |
The stuff you mentioned clearly matters: Without hard work, you don't really achieve anything because it makes you mediocre, at best; attitude? Well, of course being confident matters, otherwise you won't ever have the guts to go after the stuff you want; and I wouldn't ever play down the importance of charisma, because without social support, you're pretty much doomed.
Is this all you want to hear? Then what room is there for debate? Are we just looking for synonyms to keep repeating the same idea over and over?
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
Like, you didn't even address the ing question I asked for 's sake. |
Of bloody course I did! My very first line was "It depends pretty much on what you mean by 'those that get what they want from those that don't'. Judging by your original post, you seem to think it's all up to the person - when the external factors are just as important", which means not only I acknowledged you had a point in thinking these aspects are worth being debated, I also thought I could contribue saying there's much more to it.
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
Any opportunity you can to blather on about some ing boring philosophical , you will. |
When did I talk about philosophy here!?
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
And you always manage to throw in some thinly veiled egotistical reference to yourself. YAWN. |
Huh? I gave an example about people here just like you gave an example about people there. Had you not cited anyone in your post, I wouldn't even think of mentioning someone in mine! |
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| Silky Johnson |
Let me re-ask the question then.
| quote: | Originally posted by Silky Johnson
What is it, do you think, that separates those that get what they want from those that don't? Is it simply hard work and focus? Attitude? Charisma? A combination of all three? If all three, what do you think is the most important factor.
What say you, C0R? |
Assuming the people in question have the same access to resources and opportunity.
Better? . |
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