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Pursuing your dreams/goals and achieving them. (pg. 5)
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Someone's environment can effect the way they approach their goals. |
Living where I'm living, I completely agree with this. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Chill out there Jenny. He sorta has a point. Someone's environment can effect the way they approach their goals. You seem to be only really concerned with people who already have the opportunity to achieve great goals, and Marcus is concerned with all people in all environments. |
More importantly, no two people will ever have precisely the same situations, so trying to reduce the success of certain people to a laundry list of virtues is something people have been failing at for centuries.
If we're really to reduce the most common trait among the upper echelons of financial achievement, the answer might just be inheritance. If financial achievement is not necessarily ones criteria for success, then they really can't do much wrong, can they? |
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| Meat187 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
There is no such thing as luck! |
Yes there is. And it's one of the most important factors. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
Better? . |
But that's the problem, Jenny: if any of that is lacking, anything, it's already something that can set two people apart in most cases. Although, if you really wants to make one of them matter the most, I'm inclined to say charisma is the most important trait a person can have because a mediocre person that is liked by all probably gets more opportunities than a talented prick simply because no one wants to be around an obnoxious person.
Better now? |
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| wienerschnitzel |
| quote: | Originally posted by zip mnf
Yeah, well your accidents are cute! (not that they were actually accidents, just saying :p)
While we have you here, how have your individual goals changed as a result of having kids? Would you say that in a sense their goals are now yours? |
i got married and started having kids in my early 20's... at the time i thought "why not", i didn't know what else to do and i was in love and thought it would be a good idea. Now that i'm at the ripe old age of 29 and have 2 kids, i kind of wished i would have waited, and gone back to school and been more reckless. I've devoted my 20's to being a wife, a mum and housekeeper. We've gotten a mortgage, paid off one of our cars and now invest in our kids future. Most people i know have had more education or more fun and i'm starting to question the choices i have made. When my kids are older and in school full time, it will free up some of my time to go back to work or school. I've thought about pursuing biology/microbiology so i can help my dad with his company and eventually take over when he retires, but it's a bit of a stretch. My kids goals are ultimately my goals as well. I want to be able to provide financial assistance for them to get some decent post secondary education. I don't know if this is really the answer you were looking for, lol.. but there it is. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
But that's the problem, Jenny: if any of that is lacking, anything, it's already something that can set two people apart in most cases. Although, if you really wants to make one of them matter the most, I'm inclined to say charisma is the most important trait a person can have because a mediocre person that is liked by all probably gets more opportunities than a talented prick simply because no one wants to be around an obnoxious person.
Better now? |
This does not explain my experience not only in corporate America but in non-profits as well, where being both mediocre and prickish seems prized. However, it's usually the prickishness which masks the mediocrity. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Judging by your original post, you seem to think it's all up to the person - when the external factors are just as important", |
I know the point you are making, Lira; however, would you not consider in most cases most external factors to be more complicating factors rather than outright limiting factors. Of course it is much more difficult for the self taught pianist from Baffin Island to gain acceptance and opportunity in a more sophisticated music market; however, it is by no means impossible. I will grant you that there are some exceptions where no matter what amount of effort a goal is not achievable; however, this would seem to be a problem with one setting unrealistic goals. |
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| srussell0018 |
Outside factors can absolutely affect the choices people make regarding their futures. A friend comes to mind who went to college with me, was a great student, got wonderful grades, and had been planning on going to med school. After she graduated, both of her parents' savings were squandered in the mortgage crisis, and her sister got very sick all around the same time. Instead of continuing on to medical school, which she very well could have, she chose to become a nurse so that she could help pay her parents' bills, and pay the medical bills for her sister. This doesn't mean she was any less qualified or driven to become a doctor, it means that taking care of her family was more important.
So take her and another person of equal intelligence and educational background. External factors are the difference, and external factors are a very common limiting factor for people achieving their hopes and dreams. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
This does not explain my experience not only in corporate America but in non-profits as well, where being both mediocre and prickish seems prized. However, it's usually the prickishness which masks the mediocrity. |
Really? I would have imagined being charismatic mattered a lot.
Well, then we're back to all three factors being equally important?
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I know the point you are making, Lira; however, would you not consider in most cases most external factors to be more complicating factors rather than outright limiting factors. Of course it is much more difficult for the self taught pianist from Baffin Island to gain acceptance and opportunity in a more sophisticated music market; however, it is by no means impossible. I will grant you that there are some exceptions where no matter what amount of effort a goal is not achievable; however, this would seem to be a problem with one setting unrealistic goals. |
You've got a good point. Yeah, maybe I should've stressed the fact that the external factors were more of a "bottleneck" so to speak, which may hinder growth - but one can overcome them depending on the case. The reason why I decided to bring this up is because, no matter how problematic his research methodology is, Malcom Gladwell's "Outliers" makes a very compelling case against the idea of success we usually have in the West. It seems to be more than a coincidence that both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, among others, were born in the same year and all in the West Coast. |
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| Vector A |
| Mostly genetics, plus some parenting, general social environment, and peer influence. |
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| Vector A |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
Some people are talented, but most people aren't. I think that explains most of it, to be honest.
Hard work usually can raise a typical person from being worthless to merely mediocre, but any noteworthy level of success seems to require a level of raw ability that most people simply don't have in them. |
Yep.
This man gets it. |
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| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
It seems to be more than a coincidence that both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, among others, were born in the same year and all in the West Coast. |
I disagree. It was only a coincidence. Dennis Ritchie was born in New York, and Donald Knuth was born in Wisconsin. |
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