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this is what u make producing trance (pg. 14)
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lolo
Okay, I'm still hoping that there's a little bit good sense in each of us, that's why you see me reply again.
I won't comment here on what you said. I'm just going to add my 2 cents, and you will make conclusions the way you want... Our friend MSZ got sent FOUR royalty statements on time (and I have evidence here on my desktop and sent that to him today still), on 15-10-2010, on 13-04-2011, on 18-10-2011, and on 16-04-2012. So far, those royalty statements are still marked as unread, yet they still remain into his account into our artist baseware. The money remains available if it reaches the payable amount, he sends us his payment instructions if needed, problem solved. My colleague's intention wasn't hurting msz here, I had a check, it's an internal ironic message to the royalty dept. that got leaked when forwarding, which explain apologies afterwards. You know why this irony between us happens? Because we get hundreds of guys who never check their papers, who don't apply for publishing then never get author rights, others who close their e-mail addresses and don't let us know, not to speak about address changes, then we have those who never read their e-mail with a little bit attention until they rant about not getting their money... on TA forums. You can imagine the mess they create on their own, then blame us for it... That's the reality of the edm business today. They all blame us but when they have to face their own mistakes, nobody shows up. The same story repeats over and over again.
I could easily rant on TA about how bt screwed me with the light in things as it's my version on the album (and how he screwed many others) and I won't see any penny (I'd feed his pets with it really), how tastexperience played with my feet when he got my remix and never got back to me afterwards, how faruk disappeared when he got my remix, all of them being released on a label by a guy who simply plays with my feet too. But you know what? I don't care. at all. I move on, shut up, and do my business with trustworthy and reliable people for me. I won't get into more details of the last 4 years, because you can't believe how stinky and messy my bizz had become. enough of that. to something else now. And you guys should do the same, waste less time on here and focus a little bit more on your workflow, your paperwork and anything else that truly matters. That post exchange between morrisson and zimmerman the other day leaves me the same sore taste. Things you shouldn't talk about on forums.
Now to finish things off, I had a conversation with msz this morning. He admitted himself he's not that good with paperwork. Call my colleagues the way you want, fact is that their paperwork, their business state of affairs, and their annual balance are all clean and transparent. This ranting on the label I co-own and run today isn't very clean at all and based on incorrect or incomplete information. If you line up all posts about this, you can make your conclusions for yourself. I'm in peace with ourselves, we did what we had to and even more. And nope, I'm not even mad at msz or anyone else here. and I always stand up for constructive and positive discussion. |
You know everyone one on here has a more than positive opinion of you, especially the guys who have been around a while. I think the negative against the label you are associated with was an anomaly and everyone can see that fact.
However, I don't think the thing like how shady BT's, Tastexperience, etc business actions are should be kept private.
I know you think you're doing the "right thing" by keeping quiet, but that's how s keep in business; people they toe the line by keeping quiet so others fall in to the same trap.
The scoring industry is like this but on acid and speed. Some of the stories I have heard would make your balls drop off, and only a select few in the know ever get to hear about it but every so often a newbie (or even not so newbie) who doesn't know get's burned. Had they known, it never would have happened and frankly those that do the ing, rely on those lower down the ladder keeping their mouth shut due to the status differential.
that. Out them. It's a small community and cvunts shouldn't be allowed to proliferate.
While sensitive matters shouldn't be outed on a public forum, and especially not TA, we should not protect those who purposefully screw lesser artists just because they can, and more so get away with it due to some bull hierarchy. |
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| zodiac9 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancelover03591
Is there any chance they ran a free promotion? I publish eBooks and I know if I run a free promotion it lists those downloads with the paid sales (with nothing differentiating them). So I have literally had thousands of downloads in a cycle and barely any royalties listed next to it. Now, I know the reason since I am the publisher and chose to run the promotion. But if I didn't tell someone I was working with and just forwarded the statement then they would wonder why they were only getting a few bucks. Just an idea. |
Possibly. I was thinking that factored in somewhere, free promotions that is. Where it says "royalties: Track Downloads, Streams, etc. 01/2011 - 06/2011 15(tracks) 0,00 EUR", that is probably freebies. My other statements, older ones and newer ones, all look like this one. It can't all be freebies, when it says I earned X amount of money. Since there are no details in the statement, it's hard to know what's going on.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lolo
I keep saying this, but people blame us for not paying them as much in some situations, but they don't get their author right due to no subscription to the local company. There is nothing we can do, as we MUST dissociate publishing/author rights and sales income according to the european laws.
I saw someone unhappy with a 35% royalty generating less income that expected. Whatever the label is: it might be normal if your track/remix was part of a compilation with a lower street price. your contract says 35% on NET income. Example: if the compilation of 20 sold 500 bundles at 4.99. You get
500x 4.99/20 MINUS portal percentage (30%) and you effectively get 35% of that. That is normal. In this case: 6 cents.
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I'm in the U.S. and the label is in BELGIUM, so maybe it has something to do with European laws. I haven't applied for publishing, and didn't know I needed to, if that is the case. I was paid by another Euro label, I got exactly 50% from track sales, paid in full. I think that label was from Italy, perhaps the laws are different there. I sell some "play along with" music online, and I get 50% of whatever I sale. Oh well, guess I'll have to look into this, see what I need to do to appease these territorial laws and get my fair share.
In regard to compilations, yeah I get it, you don't make much at all from those. Also, pretty sure spotify streaming pays next to nothing. My main concern is, if someone buys a single off amazon, beatport, Itunes, ect... I want the percentage stated in the contract. Why would you expect any less? |
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| Looney4Clooney |
I"m starting a new label
You have to pay to play.
It seems like the logical progression.
For 200$, i will make your track available on beatport, free copy of drdrum, play by the top djs, and a certificate that says you are part of the elite club now. |
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| Lolo |
| quote: | Originally posted by zodiac9
Possibly. I was thinking that factored in somewhere, free promotions that is. Where it says "royalties: Track Downloads, Streams, etc. 01/2011 - 06/2011 15(tracks) 0,00 EUR", that is probably freebies. My other statements, older ones and newer ones, all look like this one. It can't all be freebies, when it says I earned X amount of money. Since there are no details in the statement, it's hard to know what's going on.
I'm in the U.S. and the label is in BELGIUM, so maybe it has something to do with European laws. I haven't applied for publishing, and didn't know I needed to, if that is the case. I was paid by another Euro label, I got exactly 50% from track sales, paid in full. I think that label was from Italy, perhaps the laws are different there. I sell some "play along with" music online, and I get 50% of whatever I sale. Oh well, guess I'll have to look into this, see what I need to do to appease these territorial laws and get my fair share.
In regard to compilations, yeah I get it, you don't make much at all from those. Also, pretty sure spotify streaming pays next to nothing. My main concern is, if someone buys a single off amazon, beatport, Itunes, ect... I want the percentage stated in the contract. Why would you expect any less? |
If you signed a record with Banshee Worx then my colleagues provided you 3 types of documents. A Master Agreement, a Publishing Contract, and a 23E Sabam Form. Why is that so? Because historically the mechanical manufacturers (vinyl, cd), the executive producers, the performers, the writers didn't get a share of everything. While a share on each copy sold is the only way to pay the executive producers as they wrote nothing, the writers got their author rights transparently off their local author rights company as each copy generated an amount directly payable to the author rights off each copy PRESSED, but also, writers got money off airplay, live performances (with orchestra, but considering it's light music and not classical) etc... The fact that only one person does it all is genre-specific and this is why those older rules apply. You might still have 30 people working on a track on different aspects of it, each part wanting its share of the cake.
The Italian label you're talking about didn't respect the laws of trade in this case. There are many of them who don't respect those rules inside the dance "business". You're getting a 50/50 deal on paper, but what about radio plays, what if your track gets played in a big event where author rights get paid and the tracks listed (and it happens more often than expected)? Lost? What about the trace and non-alterable evidence that you made the track (the 23E form next to publishing agreement) then? Inexistent? That means that anyone put his name on it and gets your money? I'm not saying that the label isn't any good, I'm saying that there are rules and sometimes it might be useful to follow them as they tend to protect you. By not following them people (the label as well as the artist) tend to face a sensible amount of legal issues and wouldn't have the paperwork at hand to back them up, which I think is risky.
Guys, from today, if you have questions regarding your paperwork and need neutral advice you know where to find me at least. I insist on the adjective "neutral". Regardless of where you're signing. I won't collect your information, and at least you get advice from a guy with 200+ contracts under his desk, who got screwed a few times, and who knows a little bit what to do. My skype is in the earlier posts, you can also e-mail me. I'll help as much as I can. |
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| Lolo |
By the way.
The new hype among musicians.
"Don't pay us royalties, keep the money, as long as you release our stuff on vinyl".
We get this demand more and more now. We're really like :conf: |
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| Lolo |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
However, I don't think the thing like how shady BT's, Tastexperience, etc business actions are should be kept private.
I know you think you're doing the "right thing" by keeping quiet, but that's how s keep in business; people they toe the line by keeping quiet so others fall in to the same trap.
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Oh no worries, I'll keep my more crusty stories for now, but one day will come, yet I'll do it as a true gent from a more neutral and positive point of view. |
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| meriter |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lolo
By the way.
The new hype among musicians.
"Don't pay us royalties, keep the money, as long as you release our stuff on vinyl".
We get this demand more and more now. We're really like :conf: |
most people would rather have a record than like the $35 labels pay out for a digital release
it means more and those people aren't doing it for money anyway
also a record means labels are actually serving a purpose, at least there is something real and tangible to gain from signing with them |
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| Lolo |
that's what they told us indeed.
then we found a partner for vinyl.
the day we did a vinyl or 2 we saw many coming back to us, yet it's nothing to do with the golden years in terms of sales.
Also keep in mind that our main labels have turned completely into underground house and techno music, vinyl friendly genres. Don't expect anything trancy on those.
(For those who didn't follow up, I switched and am now active under the umbrella of our partner label J00F) |
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| Subtle |
Bonzai are awesome! Never had any problem with them, always reply fast to emails etc.
Have about 100 euro in cash i could take from them at anytime, but i probably never will. |
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| Excess |
wow this thread is crazyness. to the op: i would be raging so hard if armada never paid out for ASOT year mix sales. that's just absolute bull because he/they make a good amount of sales across all formats on that (i own the one you're on btw).
i've dealt with smaller, one guy in a bedroom type labels, and ive never had a response like the one msz got. i'm glad to see mr. airwave rushing to the scene to fix it though.
L4C just start your own label already. with your level of awesomeness you'd be the next major in like a month brah |
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| MSZ |
| So where does this whole business go from here, its broken. What is the future, or will it only get worse? Im not talking about live performances or DJing. How does the situation improve? |
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| Excess |
it doesn't. honestly, i think niche music is always going to remain just that and anyone who strictly produces said music is going to fail at making a living unless they're in the top tier of said niche.
i don't think it's possible for a trance/prog producer to make a living strictly from productions, no matter how much fixing into the model goes in. there's only x amount of people willing to even listen to the stuff and unless a major is pushing your work to the masses and you're at the tippy top of your specialty genre it's just not feasible |
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