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possible upgrade from krk's to hs's (pg. 8)
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View this Thread in Original format
| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by jayxthekoolest
U Mad Bro?
Best part is I am a better producer than you will ever be.
And that you are completely incapable of realizing that every single comment I post is nothing more than an attempt to troll you. |
Lololololol. Don't try the old bait and switch round here.
You can't get called out then pull the "but, but I'm only trollzin' you"
You ed yourself at the beginning of the thread, and jeez "Bro" if you're going to troll, at least make it fun, rather than posting incorrect technical info.
I mean, hitler should have been invoked by now at least? |
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| Looney4Clooney |
sort of related,
i've read a book and a few studies that talk about room modes and mention the most effective way to control the nulls and peaks is by using multiple subwoofers. By placing them , you can pretty much solve any bass issues much more effectively than somewhat broadband traps. |
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| tehlord |
| And yor bayz will sound ph@t |
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| clay |
| quote: | Originally posted by Juan Paulino
Palm sucks |
:stongue: |
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| clay |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
sort of related,
i've read a book and a few studies that talk about room modes and mention the most effective way to control the nulls and peaks is by using multiple subwoofers. By placing them , you can pretty much solve any bass issues much more effectively than somewhat broadband traps. |
this is an awesome advice but you can use passive drivers intead, dont need to be a complete sub. just a passive driver, or multiple ones. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| not sure you follow. you are dealing with the initial axial room modes ie subwoofer is sort of essential. |
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| clay |
were talking bout the same thing i believe. not connected drivers making sound but just cones absorbing resonanses from the room right? same as some expensive speakers have to be able to be small.
only one driver is electricly connected, the other one only passive to make the response flatter. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| nope. we aren't talking about the same thing at all. You can control room modes with multiple subs by optimizing where the nulls and peaks will be. Granted this is all research paper stuff so i am curious as to what Rann has come across. I know he favours the 1 sub for stereo but the science seems rather simple for rectangle rooms. |
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| DJ RANN |
I take it you're talking for surround? Let me know.
Otherwise, you know what response you're going to get from me regarding stereo monitoring and using a sub. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
nope
stereo.
I'm asking what disadvantages would presenting 2 sources for low end if you knew enough about your room, science to place them so that the interaction of both sources can control the peaks and nulls in a much more efficient manner than normal bass trapping. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
nope
stereo.
I'm asking what disadvantages would presenting 2 sources for low end if you knew enough about your room, science to place them so that the interaction of both sources can control the peaks and nulls in a much more efficient manner than normal bass trapping. |
I'm super tempted to give you a lecture on why you don;t need a sub for stereo monitoring, but I'll bite....
Basically, with LF being unidirectional in nature (the low the frequency the less directional is it) it shouldn't, in theory, matter at all. One LFE should be all you need and the conventional wisdom is to then use bass traps to flatten the room.
However, when used as part of a specific monitoring setup, how the LF interacts with rest of the spectrum especially in terms of point of emination or source (i.e. your stereo monitors) starts to blur that theory.
Some say the may that harmonics interact can cause your stereo image to be distorted (in terms of placement, not timbre) and to the very trained ear, affect arrival times meaning any time based elements/effects suffer.
One engineer I was speaking to said he's used up to three LFE's in a room but it was a large room that needed a uniform listing experience. Partly monitoring and partly screening. Probably overkill for a home studio but basically there is some merit to the argument that more than one sub placed in the right areas could have a more uniform effect on frequency response of the room. The reason for this is mainly to with how modes represent in a room and the worst "dips" and peaks can be cancelled out by having more bass sources at lower volume. avoiding areas of accentuation, and in turn negate the need for as many traps.
The disadvantage, and it's a biggie, is that too much bass is one of the hardest things to control so adding a second LFE (when one is not even needed for stereo mixing) is really just asking for a world of pain.
Even some of the most experienced Acousticians I've known basically do an educated guess when it comes to LFE placement and nearly all of them admit they can't get it right purely based on the science of where it "should" go.
They all plan the main monitor position within 3/4 inch accuracy but the sub is really a good guess, then usually tried in a few different places to find the sweet spot, then a couple of the traps are either adjusted, taken away or added, to finally get it right.
personally, I hate giving advice on this. There's no ing good reason you can tell me to need a sub for stereo monitoring.
It just doesn't exist. OK so what you're doing is a *tiny* bit different as you could argue that some of the work you do ends up getting mixed in to 5.1/7.1 so a dedicated LFE might be useful to give you ideas for composition, but even then, you still don't have a dedicated LFE channel in stereo and I don't like the idea of bastardising something from a compositional process when a good engineer can make the LFE channel work for you from a stereo production.
For EDM or any other type of music, subs are simply not needed, nor a good idea. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
Not talking about sub imaging in any way. I'm talking about room modes, and how moving the source will change them especially when using them in pairs on a off phase vector.
You seem to be missing the issue i'm talking about. This is about reducing standing waves via the interaction of multiple sources. Has nothing to do with imaging at all.
I've done a few tests just here using a sub in conjunction with the yamaha hm80. By placing the sub on a pressure minima, you will reduce that modes overall peak. and vice versa. Iwas able to influence a peaks / nulls close to the mathematical theoretic hz by placing the source at the estimated room mode. By adding a subwoofer independent of the 2 speakers, you could reduce bass by adding bass energy.
2 lfe only add to the problem if they are placed at the same place. Otherwise, there will will be interaction in one way or another wether it be constructive or destructive. The concept isn't about power, it is about control over mode peaks and and nulls and where they occur. |
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