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Atheists around world suffer persecution, discrimination (pg. 7)
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| Psyshell |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
That isn't the job of atheists, that's everyone's duty in a democracy. |
Which philosophers think that attacking religion in the public sqaure is a civic duty in a democracy?
I can tell you I doubt any of the ancient greek ones did (except for socrates maybe... but look where that got him:gsmile:). I'm sure you may be able to find at least one of the "secular" ones that did but you'd also find plenty that didn't.
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels certainly did but that's not surprising is it. |
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| Vivid Boy |
ps. I dont knock atheism and I definitely don't knock religion. There are plenty of people who advance our world in the fields of Science and medicine and give us a better understanding of the universe who are completely religious. Probably just as many who are atheists. I really do think you guys have a very weird and twisted idea of what religion is all about. Religious people aren't all bible thumpers heading to church and talking to strangers about Jesus. My mother is very religious and she teaches Darwinism and world religions in her high school. My brother is religious (doesn't go to church regularly but has followed all the sacraments in the catholic religion just as I did) and has a master's in neuroscience. His wife has a PHD in psychology and believes in God. The majority of my friends are catholic, Jewish and some are even hindu and buddhists. Each one of them follow the core beliefs and do not themselves over the other's belief system. Yet Atheists feel the need to run around and call everyone stupid over something that really makes no difference to us.
Its really ed up when I think about it. That is why people hate on you. Not because you are immoral but because of how open minded our world has become and how accepting we are of all people, races and religions, yet atheists are so closed minded and still attack people on something so trivial as their belief system. its sad. You urge people to join you in this new way of thinking but it really feels like society has to take 4 steps back to join you. |
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| Psyshell |
There's good and bad everything.
There's definitely good and bad atheists.
To try and distance myself from the typical militant atheist I prefer the term "Actively Proselytizing Atheist"
I'll tolerate you and be nice and all, but if you get drunk I might try and convert you. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vivid Boy
I am explaining to you how the world works. |
no you're not. you're explaining how a bunch of ty theocracies work (ironically most not democracies at all), AND how the US works. there are plenty of secular governments in otherwise religious nations. |
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| Vivid Boy |
| The majority of first world countries that run the rest of the world are. |
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| Vivid Boy |
| just want to throw this in that 3/4 of this world claims to be secular but we all know the truth about that. If the country is democratic and there is a large demographic that believes in a certain religion you bet your ass politicians will use that to their advantage. its simple marketing that works |
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| Psyshell |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
no you're not. you're explaining how a bunch of ty theocracies work (ironically most not democracies at all), AND how the US works. there are plenty of secular governments in otherwise religious nations. |
Which countries are theocracies in the world according to you? The traditional ones I can think of are The Papal States and Tibet (and obviously tibet isn't independent).
I'd say there's some credibility for the argument that the US is while the Republicans are in power. |
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| Joz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sleightful
Whether religion is accurate or inaccurate, at the very least it provides hope for some people. |
So does riding the next high, or being drunk. That doesn't mean you get to tell other people it's ok to be strung out or wasted their whole lives.
| quote: | The irony of atheists trying to convert religious folk is hilarious.
Worldwide atheism isn't going to bring about world peace. Human beings will always find another basis for belittling others, be it race, geography, financial status... |
As if atheists were of a collective hive mind seeking to bring world peace, or believed that without religion there would be no suffering. Sorry, that sort of nonsensical utopianism is reserved for believers. |
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| Joz |
| Not every atheist is even vocal about atheism. So religion isn't keeping the "bullies" in check by discrimination. No more then they were keeping the gays/blacks "in check" the same way. |
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| Psyshell |
Some atheists spread some other ideologies in the attempt to bring world peace... but I'd be 90% or more don't think that atheism alone is the answer in the way that a lot of religious people think that their religion is the peaceful one.
Not everyone is Christopher Hitchens |
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| de+ |
| quote: | | Originally posted by Vivid Boy Probably just as many who are atheists. |
Last stats I heard was about 90% atheist to 10% religious, but it could just as easily be bunk. (I'm open to reliable facts)
Also, most atheists don't have any problems with religious fellows like those you describe, who keep their religion to themselves and don't try to force it on others. It only becomes a problem when they use their beliefs to inform their voting decisions, or otherwise try to push them on people, like through education reforms, blasphemy laws, or not striking down nonsense laws like the gay-marriage ban. That's when it becomes a problem, because now people are using unprovable and unrationisable arguments to make rules that affect other people. And that's a no-no, regardless of the reason you have those arguments (whether religion or regular delirium, but somehow everyone agrees that the delirious shouldn't be taken serious).
So yeah, that should about sum it up. I also have a number of religious friends of various levels, but that's fine. I know they keep it to their personal lives, where it belongs. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psyshell
Which philosophers think that attacking religion in the public sqaure is a civic duty in a democracy? |
It's not a matter of attacking religion, it's a matter of attacking theocratic laws that impose the religious code on everyone else. This would also be true if atheists sought to repeal religion, so it's not like it doesn't work both ways.
And you can find a huge list of people who think like this, from Locke and Mill to pretty much any liberal-minded thinker nowadays. |
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