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George Zimmerman not guilty on all counts (pg. 5)
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| crazituna |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
How do you know he didn't say "Hey, this is a gated community, what are you doing here?" and then Trayvon started beating him?
And didn't the girl repeatedly tell him to try to get away, which he obviously didn't? |
the girl thought he was a homo rapist |
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| Joss Weatherby |
None of that matters in the context of malice in this situation. Zimmerman got out of the car with the intent to confront Martin, that is a fact that Zimmerman stated himself. There was no immediate emergency situation or crime in progress that would require Zimmerman to confront Martin. It doesn't matter if Martin attacked him first, because it was clear that Zimmerman had made his presence known and that Martin was wary of Zimmerman (slowly following Martin in his car at night, getting out and following him). A citizen is not, and should not be engaging themselves in the application or attempt to enforce law when there is no immediate threat. A community watch volunteer has no legal authority to stop anyone, confront anyone, or exert force on anyone.
You have to ask yourself this when you are talking about manslaughter: Was there a course of action that Zimmerman could have taken that night that did not end up with Martin dead? If that situation exists then there is a case for manslaughter.
I say there is. If Zimmerman had NOT gotten out of his car and attempted to follow Martin on foot, and instead waited for law enforcement to arrive Martin would most likely be alive. |
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| FuzzQi |
Pretty badass lawyers
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| Lagrangian |
This case has brought up all the embarrassing issues of this ing country. Shameful, 2nd world behaviour at best.
Baboons chasing baboons. |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
You have to ask yourself this when you are talking about manslaughter: Was there a course of action that Zimmerman could have taken that night that did not end up with Martin dead? If that situation exists then there is a case for manslaughter.
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No, manslaughter as was defined by the judge when the jury asked for clarification, is if Zimmerman had shot Trayvon in an unjustified or unlawful manner. Being attacked and shooting him in self defense is justified and lawful in their state (and most states for that matter). While in New York you have to be actually be being attacked in order to shoot. You can't shoot an intruder as soon as they enter your home. Regardless, if they attack you, you have every right to shoot them, and the case would be dismissed due to the self-defensive nature of the shooting. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
No, manslaughter as was defined by the judge when the jury asked for clarification, is if Zimmerman had shot Trayvon in an unjustified or unlawful manner. Being attacked and shooting him in self defense is justified and lawful in their state (and most states for that matter). While in New York you have to be actually be being attacked in order to shoot. You can't shoot an intruder as soon as they enter your home. Regardless, if they attack you, you have every right to shoot them, and the case would be dismissed due to the self-defensive nature of the shooting. |
Easy then. Charge Zimmerman with assault, as his actions following Martin could be defined as threatening or there to be a perception of imminent violence, then charge him with voluntary manslaughter. Florida's stand your ground law only applies if the person who shoots is not in commission of any other unlawful activity.
Eitherway, Murder 2 was such an insanely inappropriate charge, the prosecution could have done a ton of different things to get this guy. |
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| srussell0018 |
Following someone isn't assault. Besides, it's pretty clear that he was the one who was assaulted. Following somebody doesn't imply imminent violence, are you serious? You posted a couple weeks ago about following some girl, does that mean you assaulted her? For all you know his intent was to ask the kid why he was there, not to start an altercation.
You clearly don't understand the judicial system if you're saying he should have been charged based on assumed intent. And charging someone with voluntary manslaughter for defending themselves when they were pinned on the ground and being beaten? You've got a few screws loose.
You also repeatedly ignore the fact that the jury could have found him guilty of manslaughter as well, which they didn't, as there was ZERO evidence to prove it. |
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| Lagrangian |
This country is #1 on many fronts: science and business to name two (my interests). We just need to get along better.
Let's start with smaller government too. |
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| srussell0018 |
| The US isn't #1 in science unless you count all of the people from Japan, India, China, etc. who are here on work visas. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
You also repeatedly ignore the fact that the jury could have found him guilty of manslaughter as well, which they didn't, as there was ZERO evidence to prove it. |
Because the prosecution sucked. There is plenty of evidence to say it was assault. Zimmerman said Martin knew Zimmerman was following him. Zimmerman said that Martin is running. Zimmerman got out of his car, and honestly if Martin was waiting to attack Zimmerman, than Martin clearly felt threatened by Zimmerman.
The prosecution got big eyes and wanted to paint Zimmerman as a killer out to get this kid, that was the wrong way to go. The situation was just unfortunate circumstances, that both parties had a role in.
I think the prosecution could have made a clear assault charge based on Zimmerman's stated intent to follow a running person who was clearly aware of him. That is aggressive. If you are doing nothing wrong, as Martin was, and someone is following you in their car, and you take off running, and they get out of their car and pursue you, you could make a pretty strong justification that him getting out of the car and pursuing.
If you look at the statute for assault in Florida you can easily fulfill all of the requirements:
| quote: | | An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another |
The act is leaving his car and following Martin after Martin ran.
| quote: | | coupled with an apparent ability to do so |
Physical violence through use of the body is an inherent ability. Furthermore, I am not sure, but if he was open carrying then the appearance of a weapon is an apparent ability as well.
| quote: | | and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent. |
Zimmerman acknowledges that Martin was aware of him. Martin ran from Zimmerman, which can be construed as Martin feeling a well founded fear, fear enough to run and hide. |
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| srussell0018 |
| Martin didn't run. His own witness testified that she told him to run and he said no. You really think George Zimmerman could have caught a 17 year old black kid in a foot race? |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
Martin didn't run. His own witness testified that she told him to run and he said no. You really think George Zimmerman could have caught a 17 year old black kid in a foot race? |
Zimmerman said he ran in the 911 transcript. |
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