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the official "I HATE CARIBANA" thread (pg. 5)
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by drewfactor
C'mon, just admit it. You are racist against black people. |
i knew this was coming...
i guess when people complain about candy ravers, underground raves, soccer hooligans etc they are racist against white people?
Get a clue... |
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| b4k-oz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
i knew this was coming...
i guess when people complain about candy ravers, underground raves, soccer hooligans etc they are racist against white people?
Get a clue... |
Double Ditto
Good comeback Jayx1...I couldn't of said it better myself
BTW, if anyone ever met my fam and peeps from NYC....they'd tell you straight out that the only racists are the onces that cry racism first |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tb.
i think theres way too much generalization goin on here, we live in a multicultural city...we should show a lil more tolerance..if its not ur thing, then dont go to it, i dont see how it effect the underground clubbin scene anyway..i had more trouble getting to system on friday coz of that stupid soccer game |
That's interesting - generalization about what? Tolerance for what? Generalization of an event that oozes crime, fear, and crippling traffic jams? An event that the city feels it needs to have hundreds of cops on foot, horses and cruisers downtown just to prevent any serious outbreaks? Would you care to tell us exactly why we should be tolerant of that? Or do you just construe an attack on Caribana as an automatic attack on black people?
I believe this is where "progressiveness" takes a distinct departure from reality. If this were about a white festival where people ended up being killed or seriously hurt or violated every year, I don't think we'd hear anyone preaching tolerance.
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure drewfactor was joking. It was cynicism about the bleeding hearts, not racial sensitivity. |
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| Jayx1 |
sadly, some of the most racist people ive ever met or seen are "non white". But our societal double standards generally fail to recognize it as such.
let me add another thing. I dont necissarily an aspect of the gay pride festival either only because i dont think we should tolerate guys hanging their schlongs out for little kids to see. If anyone else did this anywhere else at any other time they would be arrested. However, nobody gets hurt and people know what they are bringing their kids too and what to expect. Not so with caribana. Nobody expects gun play or they shouldnt anyways.
So does that make me anti-gay? or anti-black? nope.... just anti-schlong exposure and anti gunshot riddled corpses. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dnmr
yea well it brings 300 million to our econmoy......just a small price to pay |
is this figure before or after all the lost business due to the fact that the rest of toronto makes a point of leaving the city during this weekend? |
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| b4k-oz |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
That's interesting - generalization about what? Tolerance for what? Generalization of an event that oozes crime, fear, and crippling traffic jams? An event that the city feels it needs to have hundreds of cops on foot, horses and cruisers downtown just to prevent any serious outbreaks? Would you care to tell us exactly why we should be tolerant of that? Or do you just construe an attack on Caribana as an automatic attack on black people?
...Incidentally, I'm pretty sure drewfactor was joking. It was cynicism about the bleeding hearts, not racial sensitivity. |
Your prolly right about the joking ....but I think far too many ppl cry and pull the racism card out. IMO to just even write a statement like..."C'mon, just admit it. You are racist against black people." is not something to vocalize even as a joke.
Because those that listen to electronic dance music know that there is no preferred colour ....it's about the talent, the music and the dance.
That I know of, none of us are into promoting guns, murders, the walk, the talk or the bling bling
LMAO...just turned the channel to hear...."Yo, Yo, Yo, Yo, Yo......hear wat i'm saying boy"
Guess I'm also an anti-schlong exposure and anti gunshot riddled corpses in our great City, person
Peace
P :D |
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| charmscars |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
That's interesting - generalization about what? Tolerance for what? Generalization of an event that oozes crime, fear, and crippling traffic jams? An event that the city feels it needs to have hundreds of cops on foot, horses and cruisers downtown just to prevent any serious outbreaks? Would you care to tell us exactly why we should be tolerant of that? Or do you just construe an attack on Caribana as an automatic attack on black people?
I believe this is where "progressiveness" takes a distinct departure from reality. If this were about a white festival where people ended up being killed or seriously hurt or violated every year, I don't think we'd hear anyone preaching tolerance.
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure drewfactor was joking. It was cynicism about the bleeding hearts, not racial sensitivity. |
I respect a lot of your opions, but you just said generaltions of an event that *insert generalization*
there are a lot of things that cause traffic jams- sporting events, other parades. Tt's a pain in the ass, but really it's no big deal in the long run- I would hardly call them 'crippling.' Drving thru little portugal the night of danny T took me 45 minutes, but i lived thru it.
and yes there is some crime, but saying that the event 'oozes fear and crime' is unfair. PPl say the same thing about our scene- that it'sa ll about crime and drugs (ie viva shooting, guv shooting, drugging women). I have personally experienced fear in our scene, but i would hate for ppl to sum it up as a scene that 'oozes fear'. just as there is more to the EDM scene than these generalization, there is more to caribana than the ones you have listed. IMo the majority of teh ppl there are going to caribana for the same reasons that we go to our parties- the love the music, they love to dance and socialize- and they also like to celebrate their culture and their roots. yes, there are some bad seeds, but the same can be said for any culture, scene etc.
I don't like the music, I'm not interested in the parade, but these ppl are bringing in lots of tourism $, yes it's an inconvience, but they deserve to be able to celebrate their culture and have fun. |
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| b4k-oz |
| quote: | Originally posted by charmscars
I respect a lot of your opions, but you just said generaltions of an event that *insert generalization*
there are a lot of things that cause traffic jams- sporting events, other parades. Tt's a pain in the ass, but really it's no big deal in the long run- I would hardly call them 'crippling.' Drving thru little portugal the night of danny T took me 45 minutes, but i lived thru it.
and yes there is some crime, but saying that the event 'oozes fear and crime' is unfair. PPl say the same thing about our scene- that it'sa ll about crime and drugs (ie viva shooting, guv shooting, drugging women). I have personally experienced fear in our scene, but i would hate for ppl to sum it up as a scene that 'oozes fear'. just as there is more to the EDM scene than these generalization, there is more to caribana than the ones you have listed. IMo the majority of teh ppl there are going to caribana for the same reasons that we go to our parties- the love the music, they love to dance and socialize- and they also like to celebrate their culture and their roots. yes, there are some bad seeds, but the same can be said for any culture, scene etc.
I don't like the music, I'm not interested in the parade, but these ppl are bringing in lots of tourism $, yes it's an inconvience, but they deserve to be able to celebrate their culture and have fun. |
The points you've made are very valid and rational. My apologies to anyone if I came across too harsh. I don't think I want to see it banned from TO...it wouldn't be fair to do that either but
I'm definately not interested in the music or the parade...and I'm ok with the cultural diversity....but I still kinda hate Caribana cuz of all the crime it attracts in (and it does do that) |
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| DigiNut |
Tara, we aren't talking about a few minor incidents here. The media doesn't even report half of the that goes on at Caribana - wanna take a wild guess why? I'll give you a hint, it's not because they don't think people will be interested.
Speaking from what I saw with my own eyes last year and several stories I've heard from friends, I hardly consider any of this generalizing. Strong language, strong words, maybe - but that doesn't make it any less true. And believe me, I was just as unhappy with the soccer crap in Greektown and was surprised that they didn't have even more police out (not that there weren't plenty of them). I have no more respect for that than I have for Caribana or any other event that totally interferes with ordinary people's daily lives and sometimes results in them getting seriously hurt.
The Viva shooting and Guv shooting don't really qualify as counterexamples here. That is ordinary (for Toronto - and yes I know that's sad) gang violence that just happens to have taken place at clubs. As for drugging women, that happens far more often in the mainstream clubs [and moreso, bars] than it does at electronic music parties. And yes I'm aware of other that happens like when I got kicked out of Freedom because of the tweaker who escaped security and ran up into the ceiling. But it's just no comparison. Okay, Caribana has been comparatively tame this year most likely because you can't walk 3 feet without running into a police officer, but the way a person acts under constant supervision is only the exception that proves the rule.
Maybe you're not the type to be easily scared, but as for me I'm ready to my pants walking through that mess. This is hardly about celebrating culture and roots - that's more of a designer-tribalist view of it than anything else and I'm pretty sure that loaded guns and whores who look like they're going to collapse into themselves from the sheer tightness of their clothes are part of any special "culture" that needs to be celebrated and preserved.
How can you "generalize" about one single event? That doesn't even make sense. You can generalize about a group or a culture or a scene but Caribana is one single festival where something always goes wrong. When you talk about EDM you're talking about hundreds of events and venues - Caribana is just one. Maybe in this case you should remember that clubs HAVE BEEN shut down and events HAVE BEEN cancelled because too many things went wrong.
Is public safety okay to trade in for tourist bucks? It can't be bringing in THAT much - I don't see Toronto expanding its subway system or doing anything really worthwhile. Who gets these fantastic "tourist $"? My dad was on Yonge St. yesterday to go to a theatre and he said, and I quote, "These people really didn't look like big spenders - maybe they'd buy a T-shirt or something." I believe that estimates of "$300 million" that it brings to our economy are grossly exaggerated if not completely made up - as far as I know, the only place that money really goes is into hotels. I've got friends in retail who have never claimed to make any big money from Caribana - and those same people weren't modest in talking about how much they made from SARSstock and even the Canada Day weekend.
Is there more to Caribana than crime and violence and perversion? Yes I'm sure there is, I'm sure there really are deep cultural roots underlying the event. I have nothing but respect for what Caribana was intended to be but people need to wake up and see that that's not what it is.
It's not a "cultural celebration". Taste of the Danforth is a cultural celebration. The Canadian Aboriginal Festival is a cultural celebration. The Toronto Lion Dance Festival is a cultural celebration. As far as I know, people haven't been killed at these things. So tell me, if other celebrations can take place without the need for hundreds of uniformed officers, why should we put up with one that can't?
I'm not saying that the event should be banned because hey, that really would go against freedom of expression. But , maybe they could hold it somewhere that's not standing in everyone's way and getting in everyone's face? Downtown Toronto is crazy enough *without* the Caribana crowd. Hell, the city has never even bothered to issue them a warning, "Please tone it down a few shades otherwise we might have to make changes to the festival". But of course not - that would be generalizing and that makes it racist, right? :rolleyes: |
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| charmscars |
^^^^
i'm certainly not saying that the festival is perfect, or they don't have their fair share of problems. but do you really think that whole festival is void of anything culturally valuable?
the music, the costumes, the food, there are subactivities that are going on that are really cool and awesome. they provide oppurtunities for ppl to learn more about west indian culture.
my point was not how often there are shootings and other incidences in EDM, It's about how ppl like to paint it. My thoughts about the EDM scene before I became a part of it were really skewed b/c I wasn't apart of it, and I think the same can be said for caribana. And itr's not even fair for me to compae teh 2 b/c there isn't an equvalent for teh EDM scene. yes there are random club shootings in clubs like viva or guv, but there are aso shootings at other clubs. there is no huge festival that would bring outthat many ppl (nor do we have enough edm fans to support it in TO). But there are all kinds of festivals that unforunatley have bad things happen (ie rapes at wookstock).
I'm just curious aaron, you said that you were equally annoyed by the euro celebration, so would you be againt a love parade type party in TO? I mean, I think it would be awesome, to have the music that i love playing and to be dancing in the street w/ ppl who feel the same way. I'm sure there would be ppl that would complain about the traffic situation, or the need for such a party, just as a lot of ppl do for all sorts of actitivities and street parties. I think all kinds of groups should get a turn to have a big street party- i truly belive that these festivals (even if they don't interst me, make our city rich w/ culture). I def can see your point, b/c some bad does go down w/ caribana, but a party of this magnitude w/ a lot of young ppl is bound to cause problems. |
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| charmscars |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Tara, we aren't talking about a few
Hell, the city has never even bothered to issue them a warning, "Please tone it down a few shades otherwise we might have to make changes to the festival". But of course not - that would be generalizing and that makes it racist, right? :rolleyes: |
how can the organizers tone it down? i mean, the costumes and the music and the floats and the food and such are what the organizers are responsible for- it's the baddasses that are violent and fight and such that cause the problems, not the ppl involved and not the majority of ppl that attend. and yo ucan't really not put it in TO- I mean most ppl who are of west inidan backgroud live in the city, not in keswick. It's juts a fact of living in a big city that we have these festivals. they don't happen all the time- I agree that it can be inconvienent, but just b/c i don't enjoy them doesn't mean that they shouldn't exist. |
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| Rodrico |
| Its easier to hate other peoples celebrations and never to look into your own. |
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