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Arafat's dead (pg. 18)
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| Epicurus |
| quote: | | Come now, just because someone is in favour of the existence of the state of Israel does not make them a Zionist. Even if said people possessed an intrinsic irrational hatred of Palestine and the Palestinian people and maybe even Muslims all over the world, does not make them a Zionist (just prejudiced). Let's not throw these words around so readily and easily. |
Since I don't want this to degenerate into another definition thread, I'll take the easy way out ;) I said hordes of zionists. I never mentioned anyone by name. My statement merely referred to the existence of zionists debating in this thread. Since I know for a fact that Starsearcher and Goashem are zionists, and all I need is two ziosnists to validate my post, your thinly veiled attempt at trying to undermine my argument by somehow distancing yourself from zionism is futile. Thus, in conclusion Diginut, just admit you're a zionist and let's move on. :p
| quote: | | I think I addressed that point in my second paragraph... criminals come out of rich white neighbourhoods too, but the odds of it happening in a ghetto are far greater. |
Fair enough to a certain extent. However leaving it at that is TERRIBLY misleading. You've conveniently glossed over the fact as to why Palestinians live in these conditions. Israel shoulders much of the blame for that. |
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| Epicurus |
| quote: | | yet theres no suicide bombing from israelies. |
But there is a state policy of occupation and oppression, which is far worse in my opinion. |
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| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Confusing cause and effect here.
Don't try to blame Palestinian living conditions on Israel. Their conditions were a lot worse under Jordanian occupation (and I forget which other Arab states that treated them like scum in pre-1967 years). |
ok so the jordanians tear up the olive trees and crops for no reason, built that wall, installed checkpoints barring you access to work and social services, the egyptians bulldoze a whole quarter because one guy attacked Israel. |
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| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by Goashem
well same thing happens in israel. you die in a bus in a supermarket in a wedding hall in a restaurant in a nightclub schools etc... yet theres no suicide bombing from israelies. |
they don't need that, they have Apache helicopters, F15 Fighter jets and A1M1 Abrams Tanks. I think it does better than a suicide bomber. |
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| Goashem |
i think we should start a pal-isr movement for peace in the middle east and spread it over :D
edit: if by zionist you mean believe that only JEWS should live in israel then no i am not a zionist. |
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| Epicurus |
| quote: | | i think we should start a pal-isr movement for peace in the middle east and spread it over |
There are tons already. Taaysush and Gush Shalom come to mind immediately. |
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| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by Goashem
i think we should start a pal-isr movement for peace in the middle east and spread it over :D |
sign me in :)
I don't know what'll take before these dudes over there wake up:( |
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| FunKenLouis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Goashem
well same thing happens in israel. you die in a bus in a supermarket in a wedding hall in a restaurant in a nightclub schools etc... |
:nervous:
that doesnt happen that often by the way
people getting killed were told not to go in a desicnated area
i spoke a lot with Infected mushroom... and they told me that what we see on tv here is complete BULLSH**t
over-reaction in america about whats goin on over there
not worth talkin about it |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
I mean, there's crazy people all over the world.
I'm pretty sure some extremist muslim here in canada would say "kill all these infidels", no one would listen to him, no one would care because those "infidels" haven't harmed you.
The same dude over there, saying the same things, would sow some ideas in some people's mind because the "infidels" are seen as the cause of troubles.
You need to see things into context, you need to try and imagine what some people are going thru. |
Very wel said Malek.. The anti-palestinian rhetoric usuallly leaves out the context and root of the palestinian way of life. When they blow themselves up.. they truly beleive no one but the Palestinian if at fault... They forget to look at the indirect and implicit influences that shape and nurture their madness day in and day out. Couple this with the vulnerablility of the youth whom by the way hardly have any schooling becuase they were destroyed by israel... and you got a good example of a future suicide bomber.
The harsh conditions, occuptation, and suffering are a perfect environment to bring about HATRED, IRRATIONALITY, AND MURDER.:) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
You need to see things into context, you need to try and imagine what some people are going thru. |
It is precisely because I see things in context that I believe that peaceful relations ARE a possibility in the distant future. If conditions in Palestine improve, and with Arafat out of the picture they just might, then we may start to see people lightening up over there. You know me Malek, and even though we haven't hung out a *lot*, I think you know that I'm not the type of guy to judge a book by its cover. I don't believe that being born in some particular geographic region or being born into some particular race makes one inherently evil - that's ridiculous. However, growing up under ty conditions often DOES leave those people with twisted ideologies.
| quote: | Originally posted by Epicurus
Since I don't want this to degenerate into another definition thread, I'll take the easy way out ;) I said hordes of zionists. I never mentioned anyone by name. My statement merely referred to the existence of zionists debating in this thread. Since I know for a fact that Starsearcher and Goashem are zionists, and all I need is two ziosnists to validate my post, your thinly veiled attempt at trying to undermine my argument by somehow distancing yourself from zionism is futile. Thus, in conclusion Diginut, just admit you're a zionist and let's move on. :p |
Haha, you always manage to lighten the mood... kudos on that. I think it's kind of hard to be an atheist and a zionist at the same time, but hey, anything's possible right? :p
| quote: | | Fair enough to a certain extent. However leaving it at that is TERRIBLY misleading. You've conveniently glossed over the fact as to why Palestinians live in these conditions. Israel shoulders much of the blame for that. |
Of course they shoulder some of the blame, but it's a chicken and egg debate. Look at Israel on the map for a few minutes and tell me if you wouldn't be *slightly* worried living in a pea-sized state surrounded on all sides by people hostile to your very existence. If their specific actions aren't justified, their paranoia certainly is, and when another bus gets blown up every week it only serves to exacerbate the problem.
The question is not whether or not Israel has caused damage to the Palestinian state - that goes without saying - the real questions are (a) just how significant that damage is compared to the damage the PLO itself has done, and (b) whether or not Israel really has any viable alternatives. |
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| Goashem |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunKenLouis
:nervous:
that doesnt happen that often by the way
people getting killed were told not to go in a desicnated area
i spoke a lot with Infected mushroom... and they told me that what we see on tv here is complete BULLSH**t
over-reaction in america about whats goin on over there
not worth talkin about it |
no you are quite wrong, thing is it happens every weak but its not always big enough to report. if its not suicide bombing its martyr bombs or snipers shooting drivers on the roads and so on.
and to epicurus, would it hurt to have another peace group ?! |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
they don't need that, they have Apache helicopters, F15 Fighter jets and A1M1 Abrams Tanks. I think it does better than a suicide bomber. |
And how often do they use them?
Yeah, that's what I thought. |
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