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What does 'Trance' Mean To You... (pg. 10)
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| Ory |
| quote: | Originally posted by Crashed
Alright easy mate theres no need to blow a fuse over there. Dam lol |
You like trance because it's obvious. It's not deep in any way, it's very superficial actually. A melody does not equal emotion, no matter how much your brain has convinced you otherwise.
My comeback at your "repetitive and minimal" comment. :p
Jazz 4 lyf by the way. :happy2: |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Smithy
I think we need some techno dj's here to add their comments, because they would be able to explain it better. |
i do know about techno, ive been in the booth with paul dailey when he has played over here |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You're right. I've only heard maybe a little over a thousand trance tracks in my time.
Organic= music that sounds natural. I can give plenty of examples.
Did I ever say simplicity is bad? I said "if you like complex music, trance isn't much use". Do you want to argue with that? |
what happened to your argument about melody? |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ory
You like trance because it's obvious. It's not deep in any way, it's very superficial actually. A melody does not equal emotion, no matter how much your brain has convinced you otherwise.
My comeback at your "repetitive and minimal" comment. :p
Jazz 4 lyf by the way. :happy2: |
since you say that melody's are not emotional, could you please support that statement? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by sandstorm03
what happened to your argument about melody? |
Which one? Your linked definition says a series of notes played one after the other, which could be attained by a kid hitting a piano. |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Which one? Your linked definition says a series of notes played one after the other, which could be attained by a kid hitting a piano. |
you clearly missed the next 4 parigraphs
Introduction: In our first article dealing with the basic musical elements--rhythm, melody, harmony, dynamics, form and texture--we talked about what is probably the most instinctive or "primitive" element of all: rhythm. It is considered to be so because it is the one component of music that is felt instead of heard. But the most basic of all the elements which actually make sound--and the one which came first--is melody.
What is a melody? A melody is simply a line of single notes, sung or played one at a time, and selected and strung together in a way that generates a feeling of purpose and destination. All melodies share certain fundamental characteristics. Take, for instance, a familiar melody like this: [Ex.1] Now compare it to this one: [Ex. 2] Considering only the actual sounds, independent of the rhythm, what is one of the major differences between them? Or, specifically, why is The Star-Spangled Banner notoriously so difficult to sing, while America is much easier? The answer is one of the basic characteristics of any melody: range.
Range: Range means the distance in pitch between the highest and lowest notes, or, in other words, how wide a portion of the scale it covers. Now, America spans a range of only seven scale tones--five, if you omit just two low notes near the beginning ("'tis" and "I") and one high one ("let") near the end--while The Star-Spangled Banner covers twelve. That's roughly twice as much: after dipping down low at the beginning for "O say", and then three more times on "last gleaming", "broad stripes" and "gallantly streaming" [Ex. 2], you have to strain way up, twelve notes higher, for "rockets red glare" and "land of the free" [Ex. 3].
The next example is a scale played up and down between the lowest and highest notes of The Star-Spangled Banner, to give you an idea of the range it covers [Ex. 4]--and while we're at it, here's what that range would look like on the page:
Compare this aurally and visually with the range of America [Ex. 5]:
Our National Anthem is both a great tune and an inspiring poem, no doubt about it, but it's not very comfortable for the average patriot to sing. In fact, it is this problem of a wide range that has been behind the occasional efforts to get Congress to designate some other song--usually America the Beautiful or God Bless America--as our national anthem.
Contour: Another feature all melodies have in common is contour.. This refers to the shape of the line that the notes trace out as the melody progresses: if most of the notes move to adjacent or nearby tones, the melody tends to be smooth; if they skip around a lot between more distant pitches, they form a much more angular contour.
Now, America is an example of a very smooth melody. With the exception of only four places, three of which skip only one pitch, every note in the song moves to a note in the scale that's right next door; here's how they line up on the musical staff:
That's the first half of America; you can see what a gentle curve the line describes, with only one small jump between the third and fourth notes--a very smooth contour. Now compare that to the opening of The Star-Spangled Banner:
You don't have to be able to read music to see the difference in the shape of the two lines.
Other Characteristics: Another characteristic of any melody is length, which needs no explanation; other melodic features are usually the result of being combined with additional elements such as rhythm and harmony. But there was a time when melody stood alone, unsupported by chords or by a regular beat. Here is an example: [Ex. 6] This is Gregorian Chant, also called plainsong or plainchant, which developed in the early Christian Church well before 1000 A.D. In its original form it is sung unaccompanied by chords or other melodies, or by instruments; and its rhythm, though somewhat formalized, is derived from the flow of ordinary speech. Here is a second example of plainsong: [Ex. 7]
Cadence: In listening to the last two examples you may have noticed that, even without chords to support it, a melody seems to want to end on one particular note of the scale, as though that note were the melody's "home base". Nearly all music in our Western culture exhibits this tendency to gravitate back towards one central tone or chord--a place of arrival--before it sounds finished. Such places in music are called cadences.
Perhaps the best way to illustrate a cadence is to demonstrate what a familiar song would sound like without it--so here it is: [Ex.8] Even if you didn't know the tune you would certainly feel that the song broke off before it arrived where it should--it didn't get to its cadence, so it sounds unfinished.
that should help
ps-
if you want to be more convincing you should share a melody of yours with us. |
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| Ory |
| quote: | Originally posted by sandstorm03
since you say that melody's are not emotional, could you please support that statement? |
Melodies can be emotional, duh, that's what they're there for. Epic McTrance/McProg trance lacks depth though, which makes them not emotional, which makes them failed genres. :stongue: |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by sandstorm03
you clearly missed the next 4 parigraphs
Introduction: In our first article dealing with the basic musical elements--rhythm, melody, harmony, dynamics, form and texture--we talked about what is probably the most instinctive or "primitive" element of all: rhythm. It is considered to be so because it is the one component of music that is felt instead of heard. But the most basic of all the elements which actually make sound--and the one which came first--is melody.
What is a melody? A melody is simply a line of single notes, sung or played one at a time, and selected and strung together in a way that generates a feeling of purpose and destination. All melodies share certain fundamental characteristics. Take, for instance, a familiar melody like this: [Ex.1] Now compare it to this one: [Ex. 2] Considering only the actual sounds, independent of the rhythm, what is one of the major differences between them? Or, specifically, why is The Star-Spangled Banner notoriously so difficult to sing, while America is much easier? The answer is one of the basic characteristics of any melody: range.
Range: Range means the distance in pitch between the highest and lowest notes, or, in other words, how wide a portion of the scale it covers. Now, America spans a range of only seven scale tones--five, if you omit just two low notes near the beginning ("'tis" and "I") and one high one ("let") near the end--while The Star-Spangled Banner covers twelve. That's roughly twice as much: after dipping down low at the beginning for "O say", and then three more times on "last gleaming", "broad stripes" and "gallantly streaming" [Ex. 2], you have to strain way up, twelve notes higher, for "rockets red glare" and "land of the free" [Ex. 3].
The next example is a scale played up and down between the lowest and highest notes of The Star-Spangled Banner, to give you an idea of the range it covers [Ex. 4]--and while we're at it, here's what that range would look like on the page:
Compare this aurally and visually with the range of America [Ex. 5]:
Our National Anthem is both a great tune and an inspiring poem, no doubt about it, but it's not very comfortable for the average patriot to sing. In fact, it is this problem of a wide range that has been behind the occasional efforts to get Congress to designate some other song--usually America the Beautiful or God Bless America--as our national anthem.
Contour: Another feature all melodies have in common is contour.. This refers to the shape of the line that the notes trace out as the melody progresses: if most of the notes move to adjacent or nearby tones, the melody tends to be smooth; if they skip around a lot between more distant pitches, they form a much more angular contour.
Now, America is an example of a very smooth melody. With the exception of only four places, three of which skip only one pitch, every note in the song moves to a note in the scale that's right next door; here's how they line up on the musical staff:
That's the first half of America; you can see what a gentle curve the line describes, with only one small jump between the third and fourth notes--a very smooth contour. Now compare that to the opening of The Star-Spangled Banner:
You don't have to be able to read music to see the difference in the shape of the two lines.
Other Characteristics: Another characteristic of any melody is length, which needs no explanation; other melodic features are usually the result of being combined with additional elements such as rhythm and harmony. But there was a time when melody stood alone, unsupported by chords or by a regular beat. Here is an example: [Ex. 6] This is Gregorian Chant, also called plainsong or plainchant, which developed in the early Christian Church well before 1000 A.D. In its original form it is sung unaccompanied by chords or other melodies, or by instruments; and its rhythm, though somewhat formalized, is derived from the flow of ordinary speech. Here is a second example of plainsong: [Ex. 7]
Cadence: In listening to the last two examples you may have noticed that, even without chords to support it, a melody seems to want to end on one particular note of the scale, as though that note were the melody's "home base". Nearly all music in our Western culture exhibits this tendency to gravitate back towards one central tone or chord--a place of arrival--before it sounds finished. Such places in music are called cadences.
Perhaps the best way to illustrate a cadence is to demonstrate what a familiar song would sound like without it--so here it is: [Ex.8] Even if you didn't know the tune you would certainly feel that the song broke off before it arrived where it should--it didn't get to its cadence, so it sounds unfinished.
that should help |
Look, you simplified musical laws on rhythm down to "a kid hitting pans", so I thought I'd do the same. Make a real argument. |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ory
Melodies can be emotional, duh, that's what they're there for. Epic McTrance/McProg trance lacks depth though, which makes them not emotional, which makes them failed genres. :stongue: |
can you define depth? |
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| Crashed |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ory
You like trance because it's obvious. It's not deep in any way, it's very superficial actually. A melody does not equal emotion, no matter how much your brain has convinced you otherwise. |
Ahhh thanks for enlightening me as to why i like Trance. Man what would i do withought people like you. And a melody can equal whatever you make it equal. I like Trance therefore i feel emotion when i listen to it :D |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Look, you simplified musical laws on rhythm down to "a kid hitting pans", so I thought I'd do the same. Make a real argument. |
i can take that. can you provide a definition of rhythm.
there is something you have to remember though. Trance has both melodies, and rhythm. Imo maby even the definition of music is having rhythm. If it does not it just is sound.
ps-
personally it is easier for me to make a "techno" track.
and the producer here sirocco, has been producing for a few years(3-4 years?). Amazing stuff if you ask me. Produced really well. I know liebing has played some of his stuff, and he sells a lot of sample packs. But the kid can not make a melody. He said it is really hard for him to do. Interesting isnt it? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
Ory, you are kidding yourself.
And Sandstorm... techno has a lot more sublety in the rhythm than trance, although tech-trance does cancel that argument. I say trance is more complex musically than techno, but techno is very simple, so relies on excellent production to sound any good, while trance can wing the production a bit if it's well-written enough. See? |
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