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Should the guy pay for the date? (pg. 15)
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
"money = love" is not generic to today's society. Of principle importance for female primates (that includes us) in choosing mates is security. In present human society wealth = security. Prior to currency land = security, prior to property rights power = security, prior to civilization strength = security.
Of course there are a host of other criteria used by women to choose a mate, however, security remains one of the most important. This is starting to change, thankfully, because women themselves have more money today and therefore are more secure independent of a man so the money aspect of security takes on less importance. |
It's extremely exaggerated in our society. And i dont see it changing. I see it getting worse. Women work more yes but they still expect the same if not more from men financially than ever before. I know so many girls who refuse to move into anything less than the type of house they grew up in when they marry and expect the guy to pay most of it. Thats just sad.
I know of a woman who is 31 and lives with her mom but wont date a guy because he lives with a room mate and is "only" a phone technician.... WTF??? |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by muzzybear
Niall and I eloped to city hall. I didn't ask or want an engagement ring. We went out for Karaoke with our friends that night (it was a wednesday... my boss gave me the day off!).
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Being as I'm two months away from my own wedding and in the middle of panic time trying to make sure everything is done and will run smoothly your wedding sounds very appealing to me. That being said I don't think I would actually want a small civil service wedding... I really am a big fan of ceromony and tradition in many respects and this is one of them. I tell you though, I wouldn't do this again... hopefully I won't have to. |
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| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Female chauvenism should also be dead. Female chauvenism is the idea that the man still has to follow traditional roles while the female is free to do whatever she pleases. It's everywhere now.
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Aye, i stronly disagree w/ male chauvenism, and i strongly disagree w/ female chauvenism as u put it as well! its just as much COMPLETE BULL as the other. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
It's extremely exaggerated in our society. And i dont see it changing. I see it getting worse. Women work more yes but they still expect the same if not more from men financially than ever before. I know so many girls who refuse to move into anything less than the type of house they grew up in when they marry and expect the guy to pay most of it. Thats just sad.
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That is sad, however, I assure you that it will change. Remember that women being economically secure independent of a man is a relatively new thing. While economic realities have changed in the space of 40-50 years the socialization of young women has not. Our generation will place less importance on wealth in choosing a mate then our parents, our children will place less importance on it then us, our grandchildren will place even less. Things like this take time as they are systemic. |
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| muzzybear |
I've gotta say, that the vows and the service by the city hall minister were beautiful! (one of the girls I work with had her 3rd anniversary that day, and she was crying, as was I... even my hubby was all shaky lipped!)
We love telling people we got married at Raccoon City (for all of you who have seen Resident Evil II, you'll get the joke!)
Good luck with the wedding plans... everybody loves a big party! :D |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jem_hadar
Aye, i stronly disagree w/ male chauvenism, and i strongly disagree w/ female chauvenism as u put it as well! its just as much COMPLETE BULL as the other. |
yet oddly one is very accepted and the other is not. In fact female chauvenism is so much a part of canadian culture that most people dont realize it even exists. Until of course you get a poor swedish guy caught in the middle of it. Host mom is a classic case of the typical perpetuator or chavenism. I bet she considers herself a liberated woman too. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
That is sad, however, I assure you that it will change. Remember that women being economically secure independent of a man is a relatively new thing. While economic realities have changed in the space of 40-50 years the socialization of young women has not. Our generation will place less importance on wealth in choosing a mate then our parents, our children will place less importance on it then us, our grandchildren will place even less. Things like this take time as they are systemic. |
how come we cant be like sweden and europe (and most places in the modern world) when it comes to the simple act of dating then? I think we have a long way to go. We have to change a lot of ideas and perceptions about how people should be treated as equals and that goes along every single class line you can think of.
Ill never forget watching muchmusic about 5 or 6 years ago and one of those cheesy boybands was in town and doing an interactive out on queen st. It was either backstreet or Nsync. Anyways one of the guys (it could have been timberlake actually) said something like "i think in this day of equality women should pick up the tab for the men sometimes.... you know equality and all right?"...
well all the screaming adoring fans suddenly started booing and yelling and this poor singer looked like he wanted to crawl into a hole. These girls are probably today's 20 year olds so i dont see things changing for a long time. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
how come we cant be like sweden and europe (and most places in the modern world) when it comes to the simple act of dating then? I think we have a long way to go. We have to change a lot of ideas and perceptions about how people should be treated as equals and that goes along every single class line you can think of. |
We can't be more like Sweden or northwestern Europe (you can't paint all of Europe with the same brush here but certainly the northwest fits what you're getting at) because they are far more socialist countries then we are. The people of these countries actually believe that all people are equal regardless of race, sex, class, or sexual orientation. We do not... not yet anyway. They didn't change their attitudes overnight either. They have a much longer history of socialism then we do. We'll get there but it will take a few more generations.
I'm surprised that you would want us to be more like Sweden given that they are amongst the most socialist states. I figured that your political views are right of centre.... is that not correct? I suppose it is possible to think one thing politically and another socially, unfortunately you cannot have both in practice. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
We can't be more like Sweden or northwestern Europe (you can't paint all of Europe with the same brush here but certainly the northwest fits what you're getting at) because they are far more socialist countries then we are. The people of these countries actually believe that all people are equal regardless of race, sex, class, or sexual orientation. We do not... not yet anyway. They didn't change their attitudes overnight either. They have a much longer history of socialism then we do. We'll get there but it will take a few more generations.
I'm surprised that you would want us to be more like Sweden given that they are amongst the most socialist states. I figured that your political views are right of centre.... is that not correct? I suppose it is possible to think one thing politically and another socially, unfortunately you cannot have both in practice. |
Im a financial conservative but a liberal socialist. In other words you can do whatever you please just dont make the rest of us foot the bill. And i dont buy into canadian brand of social equality and left wing societal views which basically means inequality but on the other foot. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Im a financial conservative but a liberal socialist. In other words you can do whatever you please just dont make the rest of us foot the bill. And i dont buy into canadian brand of social equality and left wing societal views which basically means inequality but on the other foot. |
I'm not sure that you can have a socialist society without an extensive tax base, however, this is not a thread to debate policy.
I agree with you that the present "equality" is more concerned with compensating agreeved parties for the inequalities they suffered in previous generations. I further agree that this is not true equality. It would seem I am just more optomistic then you as I see this as one step in a process of moving toward true equality. Based on what other states have gone through in their quest for equality this is a normal and necessary step.... it is the inevitable overreaction to new social conscience. We will take corrective measures as we raise the next generation and they will make further corrections as they raise their children.
My views aside, please continue to express your outrage as society needs firebrands in order to keep the injustices fresh in our minds. I know it probably sounds odd that I would say such a thing given that we disagree in a great number of areas, however, it is true... we need people to yell from the hill tops in order to draw our attention to things. Whether people agree with you or not at least you've made them think about something and that is a valuable service. |
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| Jayx1 |
i never expect everyone to agree with me. But as long as they at least think about what im saying i am satisfied.
You can have a financially conservative but socially liberal party. But when i say social i dont mean socialism. Im talking about libertarianism and equality. I am not a true libertarian in the sense that i do believe the government has a role in many areas. But there is no doubt that the government here has overstepped it's bound many times over in all aspects of our daily lives.
Like i said, in my canada you can do whatever you want to do with your life as long as you are responsible enough to support your decisions. For example, want to have kids? Well great have as many as you want but dont expect the state to pay for child care. |
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| RobbyG. |
| "pay for the date"...well there's several to choose from along Jarvis or Lansdowne :tongue2 |
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