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so what does everyone think about arnolds decision (pg. 5)
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| Mebot |
| quote: | Originally posted by Masonious
Do you think that society should look at these things on a personal level or a societal level? When you try people for crimes can / should time be a factor? I feel that society has to judge people on a societal level for crimes committed regardless of the time of the hearing. For centuries, man has held the idea that lenience creates more crime than it staunches and I’m somewhat inclined to agree. On a personal level I regret that Tookie is no longer shuffling about this coil as well as the drug dealing Australian, Nguyen, that was hung some weeks back; yet society has to draw the line at some point between burdening the taxpayers by sustaining the life of a wicked, or once wicked, person and removing them from society wholly. At what point is that line drawn? I’m way too drunk to answer any of these questions so I’ll leave it at that, but after much consideration (sober) I decided that Tookie deserved the death penalty for murdering several people and never admitting / apologizing though the evidence pointed quite clearly toward him. |
I'm a confused by your post. What do you mean by "should time be a factor"? are you talking about the length of time spent on Death Row, or the length of time for the actual trial?
As for personal level vs. societal level, are you talking about taking on a personal vendetta against someone accused of a crime rather than facing a trial and judge and jury of their peers?
It's a very rhetorical question that I don't think can be answered simply with a post in c0r. there're so many factors to take into consideration, that I just can't blatantly say,yes he deserves the death penalty or no he doesn't. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by naesean3
He had the ability to grant forgiveness - yet condemned the man.
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This is the most important thing anyone's said in this thread so far.
I don't think very many people today truly understand what forgiveness REALLY means. |
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| Masonious |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mebot
I'm a confused by your post. What do you mean by "should time be a factor"? are you talking about the length of time spent on Death Row, or the length of time for the actual trial?
As for personal level vs. societal level, are you talking about taking on a personal vendetta against someone accused of a crime rather than facing a trial and judge and jury of their peers?
It's a very rhetorical question that I don't think can be answered simply with a post in c0r. there're so many factors to take into consideration, that I just can't blatantly say,yes he deserves the death penalty or no he doesn't. |
With regard to length of time, I was speaking of the length of time spent in jail before the punishment is carried out. Had he been sentenced to death and executed a few weeks after blowing a clerk's brains out for 111 dollars, I doubt there would be so much pity for him.
Personal vs Societal; my point was that allowing Tookie to live surely would be beneficial to Tookie personally as he most likely would not have harmed another soul directly. But if the decision to grant him clemency is analyzed from a social level, the argument becomes much stronger in that granting clemency to a murderer effectively commissions the repetition of such an act.
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If you would like to get into it being a burdeon on tax dollars, dont you think we should first look to things like druggies and prostitues filling our jails? Sorry, but people in jail for life and especially people on death row are far far fewer in number than those in prisons for petty crimes. People like Charlie Manson that have no remorse and are instead proud of what they have done, an exception can be made, but when the person has obviously turned around thier life and thier views, shouldnt we be able to recognize that in some way? I'm not saying the guy should go free and in fact, the guy said in an interview I read that he didnt think he should go free, but atleast drop his sentence to life. But no, instead, people like Charlie Manson are in a life sentence with parole. Whatever...
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I agree that there are worse problems than the Tookie issue but I don't think that justifies ignoring problems for which a solution is in place until the bigger problems are solved. |
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| Mebot |
| quote: | Originally posted by Masonious
With regard to length of time, I was speaking of the length of time spent in jail before the punishment is carried out. Had he been sentenced to death and executed a few weeks after blowing a clerk's brains out for 111 dollars, I doubt there would be so much pity for him. |
Well yeah. Like I said before time heals all wounds, and while they can't go back in time to reverse the actions, at least some people might start feeling sorry for someone.
then again youhave to look at the families perspective and wonder what it feels like to wait 24 long years just to see the guy who murdered your son to be put to death.
| quote: | | Personal vs Societal; my point was that allowing Tookie to live surely would be beneficial to Tookie personally as he most likely would not have harmed another soul directly. But if the decision to grant him clemency is analyzed from a social level, the argument becomes much stronger in that granting clemency to a murderer effectively commissions the repetition of such an act. |
i mean yeah it's totally possible. but by doing one action over anothe, we'll never know what could've been. I don't know if theres a statistical average for this sort of thing, but if there was, I bet we'd see an interesint correlation.
| quote: | | I agree that there are worse problems than the Tookie issue but I don't think that justifies ignoring problems for which a solution is in place until the bigger problems are solved. |
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| suRche |
heres sum knowledge about "Tookie"
Tookie |
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| stevieboy32808 |
| Ok let's say the people who are defending Tookie are right in saying that he didn't commit the murders. He still founded a gang which was involved in the death of many people. Now that alone is conspiracy to murder. Tookie would not have won either way. |
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| Azz3D |
he deserved to die
just the fact that he was clean in jail doesn't change what happened in the past |
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| Azz3D |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
This is the most important thing anyone's said in this thread so far.
I don't think very many people today truly understand what forgiveness REALLY means. |
there's a difference between "you cheat on me and i forgive you" and "you kill my family and i forgive you" |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Azz3D
there's a difference between "you cheat on me and i forgive you" and "you kill my family and i forgive you" |
No there isn't. Forgiveness is forgiveness, which you obviously don't understand.
I stand by my first statement.
;) |
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| Azz3D |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
No there isn't. Forgiveness is forgiveness, which you obviously don't understand.
I stand by my first statement.
;) |
so by your logic you'd put cheaters in the same bag as killers? |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Azz3D
so by your logic you'd put cheaters in the same bag as killers? |
Hahaha..you really don't get it.
It's not about making all crimes equal. It's about faith in humanity.
Forgiveness is a completely selfless act, which is why most people today don't understand what it means to forgive someone...because most people today are only concerened with themselves and what they get out of any given situation. |
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| Azz3D |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
Hahaha..you really don't get it.
It's not about making all crimes equal. It's about faith in humanity.
Forgiveness is a completely selfless act, which is why most people today don't understand what it means to forgive someone...because most people today are only concerened with themselves and what they get out of any given situation. |
would you forgive saddam? hitler? stalin? |
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